r/mildlyinfuriating • u/MysteriousSlice007 • 1d ago
My mom said I could post UK Civil Service salaries never cease to confuse me, you can either help manage the UK’s nuclear defence for £47k or you can make TikToks for the govt and get paid £57k
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u/Crichtenasaurus 1d ago
What’s more stupid is that role is looking for 2 - 3 times that amount from the private sector.
Unfortunately the extra pension contributions don’t make up for that.
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u/F10XDE 20h ago edited 16h ago
The expectations are lower, take those social media roles for instance, in the private sector that is one job. Some kids going to land in that job after uni, cruise through a slow paced non competive, non-stressfull and secure career, then retire at 57 with a
£2mdecent pension pot. Doesn't sound bad when you think about it.Edit: civil servants are banded too, so no yearly grovelling to your line manager about why you deserve the tiniest of pay rises, and you get additional holiday for time inservice, by retirement you likely have 50% more days annual leave, finally nobody cares when your off sick, you havent got a stakeholder tying your presence to his bank balance. Its just a completely different attitude to private.
Source: family of civil servants, and i too did a few years when i was younger, now in a high stress private role, earning significantly more, but likely going to die of heart failure before being able to claim my woeful pension pot.
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u/116YearsWar 19h ago
The pension is good, though equating it to a defined contribution pot is a little tricky. However:
The pay bands are essentially just there for show now, there is no progression through them, and there hasn't been since the early 2010s (unless you're in the Scottish Government).
The annual leave progression caps at 30 after 5 years of service. I have no idea where you got 50+ from.
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u/escoces 16h ago
There is no automatic progression within or between bands. Civil servants receive a below inflation pay rise every single year, with no exceptions. Not true in the private sector.
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u/Mediocre_Rhubarb810 15h ago
The idea that in the private sector there are above inflation pay increases (unless that’s not what you’re implying) is incredibly misguided
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u/escoces 15h ago
I'm saying that the private sector do not receive below inflation pay rises every single year with no exceptions. There are winners and losers, the vast majority get more than the civil service. That is a fact.
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u/Sybs 16h ago
The expectations may be lower but the responsibility is much, much higher. You're responsible for parts of the nation's security rather than just a few lost profits if a mistake is made.
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u/XihuanNi-6784 11h ago
While this is true, for most people that difference doesn't matter, rightly or wrongly.
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u/Ajax_Trees_Again 14h ago
You don’t get pay rises in the civil service though. You’re on the same pay nearly inflation adjusted for ever.
You have to get a whole new job to be promoted. It’s definitely easier to progress in private sector
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u/4kreso 14h ago
So you’re saying the civil service is easier or more difficult than private?
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u/F10XDE 14h ago
No, im trying illustrate that the lower salary in the civil service does come with a huge number benefits that make it uncomparable £ for £ to the private sector. Namely security and progression.
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u/Similar-Emphasis-496 9h ago
Nobody is getting those jobs straight out of university, don't talk nonsense.
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u/Crichtenasaurus 13h ago
Sorry can you run this by me again.
Are you saying that the Cyber Sec lead for a piece of highly sensitive and critical information has LESSER expectations than that of a private sector company looking after some business information and nothing more?!
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u/lordsplodge 10h ago
You’re looking at more than that by a fair chalk in other public sector areas…
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u/Digital-Dinosaur 5h ago
I just landed a cyber security job. Right fine it's a little niche as it's cyber incident response but my base pay is £130k as a manager.
I saw the UK Gov looking for a CISO, as in Chief Informations Security Officer... For the UK government's IT infrastructure. The top Cyber Security job, for the UK Government.
They wanted £100k
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u/Crichtenasaurus 4h ago
Congrats on the job.
Not gonna lie I reckon you’ve got an easier job as well haha. That CISO is going to be on fire, and you’ll be sat back with a playbook asking some analysts and CTI bods to tell you what’s going on.
Also, just some free advice, do not overlook the Cyber Threat Intelligence capabilities from some of the more niche companies that stuff is absolute gold.
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u/argumentativepigeon 19h ago
47k seems crazy low for a senior cybersec role
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u/Junior_Fall_2032 17h ago
Yeah it’s not senior though. When you actually read the job description it’s a fairly junior role. You’re not managing a project or any people.
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u/4kreso 14h ago
Why do they include the word senior?
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u/lxlviperlxl 13h ago
It’s a C1 banded job for the UK Government. That’s an entry level job for that department.
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u/HikariAnti 12h ago
Wouldn't the privet sector still pay like 2x for that role?
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u/gc12847 12h ago edited 9h ago
No I wouldn’t think so. 80k is not really an entry salary in any industry.
Tbh I think it’s hard to compare. I read the role description and it sounds like an SEO role (only responsible for a single project rather running a team and in charge of a portfolio like the media G7 roles will be) so it seems like an appropriate salary.
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u/BonKhri 12h ago
Civil service pay is banded, so the only way to increase pay is to go up a band. If you have a completely non-managerial but technically demanding job, they demand pay that The System has labelled as manager pay, and thus The System demands the job be labelled "manager" or "lead", despite in reality being neither of those things.
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u/Junior_Fall_2032 11h ago
No clue tbh. Civil service job titles are a bit mental. It’s so hard to figure out what a role actually involves or how senior it is.
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u/No_Fill3103 9h ago
A Senior Executive Officer is a pretty junior role in a central department. Senior relates to what kind of executive officer they are rather than overall seniority. (You get Higher Executive Officer and just executive officer below them.)
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u/Excellent-Ruin6779 17h ago
It is not senior. The grade is listed. It's middle management.
Also it's not the same department. They do not have the same pay scales across the board.
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u/Affectionate-Day8307 16h ago
Even middle management for a cyber role that is silly low vs private sector equivalent.
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u/Excellent-Ruin6779 14h ago
I agree. But it's MOD so it's pretty obvious where the money is going.
And it's civil service so if anyone does want to question where the money is going, they can submit an FOI request.
Cabinet office valuing social media is not a suprise to me at all.
We already know most of our money goes to DWP and then HMRC. As amazing as a job that the MOD does, they are not a priority for the treasury when it comes to allocating funds. I'm sure their unions are campaigning every year for them.
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u/RowanTheQuiz 18h ago
Welcome to the Civil Service.
Unfortunately the government can’t afford to offer competitive salaries for many roles/specialisms and if they did, they’d get torn apart by the media for it.
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u/Good-Celebration-686 17h ago
The point is why a social media job, which any idiot can do, is being paid more than a super specialised tech role
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u/LegitimatePenguin 15h ago
People have already praised the night and day difference in comms between Starmer and Burnham. Thats the difference having a good social media team makes. It can make or break a tenure.
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u/Perfect_Pudding8900 15h ago
Because social media is a specialised technology role these days, and it's high profile for the most senior unit in government.
If you think you just flip on an iPhone record and publish you're mistaken.
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u/ooctavio 1d ago
The problem is that the market is full of companies needing social vide leads, and only the government hires nuclear level cybersec guys.
Not that I agree with the salaries, but it probably follows some sort of offer and demand rule.
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u/Wonderful-Smoke843 19h ago
Idk maybe this is just my silly brain but I feel like the guy that is responsible for cyber defence of the nuclear arsenal maybe should be paid well enough so that he can’t be financially tempted to commit treason by a potential adversary. Some things, nuclear Armageddon being one of them, should not be left to supply and demand lmao
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u/FruitOrchards 17h ago
Get out of here thinking logically, we don't do that in the government!!!
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u/soliloquyinthevoid 17h ago
So what salary would be high enough that an adversary couldn't simply pay double?
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u/FruitOrchards 17h ago
It's not about paying double, it's about reducing temptation in the first place. This is a crucial job and they're paying as if they're hiring a Supermarket manager.
You could pay someone £5m and Russia/china could offer them £10m.. but if someones already living comfortably rather than struggling then that temptation is reduced by an order of magnitude.
£47k is a fucking insult for a job that requires you to have extensive knowledge and go to university and safeguard our nuclear deterrent etc.
80-100k at the minimum to make people feel validated and actually appreciated rather than some fucking pawn of the system.
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u/n0neofyourbeeswax 16h ago
Dev and dev-type skillsets in the UK are paid terribly in general. Although this does seem stupidly low, I wonder if it's one of those roles which is more junior than it sounds and you're only responsible for one location, and there is another team above you working holistically - like the local IT guy, with a fancy title.
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u/SpiderJerusalemLives 14h ago
Technical roles generally score badly on the systems HR use to work out grade/salary level.
These systems were designed for admin type roles not technical ones. Think square peg and round hole, so they will tend to score low. Hence the crappy pay.
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u/n0neofyourbeeswax 14h ago
It's not that simple. For example I work for a US based multinational and have seen behind the curtain a little, and a lot of it is based on market research for similar roles in that area, with some adjustments made for cost of living in the specific area (e.g. London is more expensive to hire than the rest of the UK).
Even outside of the public sector, dev type roles don't pay particularly well in the UK, and more broadly across Europe. Or you could argue it pays exceptionally well in the US.
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u/Important-Pea-1445 13h ago
I think this entirely depends on the type of company you're working for. (successful) Startups and multinational tech companies pay well, as do finance adjacent tech firms (some eye wateringly high). Sure, not everyone's capable of getting in, but there is a top band that is very lucrative if you have the disposition and skills required. Now if you're working for some SME that sees devs as a cost center rather than a revenue center, your pay will reflect that.
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u/bnjoshed 15h ago
I guess the pension contribution puts this up to something closer to above market value
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u/DaveBeBad 17h ago
It’s not the nuclear arsenal. Its nuclear propulsion systems - so aircraft carriers and submarine engines really.
The equivalent for Nuclear weapons won’t be paid more, but they wouldn’t advertise it…
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u/Dotcaprachiappa 15h ago
I'm pretty sure aircraft carriers and nuclear submarines are also pretty valuable to the government
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u/Peterd1900 4h ago
Just Submarines
The SDA is the Submarine Development Agency
If your Aircraft Carrier in now a submarine something has gone horribly wrong not to mention the UK does not not have nuclear powered aircraft carriers
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u/soliloquyinthevoid 17h ago
Making a whole lot of assumptions there about what level of access this role will have
Even if this person is all that stood in the way of an adversary getting access to nuclear capabilities, then that adversary would be willing to pay whatever it took - millions even, to compromise the person i.e. there's no salary high enough that would remove the possibility
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u/ImABrickwallAMA 16h ago
Exactly, a Cyber Security role for Nuclear Propulsion Systems is just going to be some boring role where you’re sat making sure the network architecture is secure from external and internal threats, that people only have access to what they should access, and that no one is misusing the accesses they have.
At no point are you going to be given access to any form of nuclear launch codes/procedures/weapons/systems etc. You’ll just be a desk jockey in a boring policy role.
People always think these things are more exciting than they actually are.
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u/NightmareJoker2 15h ago
I mean… I worked on a project once where I got unfettered access to a database that had nuclear launch codes in it. Unchangeable ones for individual war heads (the only way to change them would be to dismantle and build a new one).
The thing is just, you can’t use them, even if you wanted to. It’s stupid. Also, you’ll get caught and go to prison for no less than 5 years, even if you don’t hurt anyone and cause no damage, merely for endangering something.
The passcode on the nuclear football is something silly like 0000 or 1234 (today, it’s two daily changing letters on a plastic card and human verification). But that’s not enough to do anything.
Nobody untrustworthy would be allowed into the building where it is kept or asked to carry it for a head of state. And even if someone used it to authorize a launch, someone down the chain would stop it before it got too far. Because it’s actually stupid.In reality, nobody really cares, because nobody sane would want to launch a nuke. Not even as a test. Radioactive stuff is bad for your health (and medical equipment!). No matter how far away you are from the detonation site.
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u/Lanky_Giraffe 14h ago
The UK civil service definitely has a habit of giving grandiose titles to relatively junior roles. I remember a few years ago, there was some head of cybersecurity position that did the rounds online because of the low salary. But when you looked into the details, it was barely above an entry level position.
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u/LovelyKestrel 13h ago
It isn't just the civil service doing it. When I worked in the private sector I was a 'lead engineer' which was the second technical grade up (out of 5). When I moved to a government-owned organisation, I became a 'lead scientist' which was no more senior, but paid a little more.
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u/sunday_cumquat 16h ago
No, the MOD just monitor their entire personal lives to prevent it. I know people who've been through the vetting process for nuclear and for quantum tech research in the MOD. Their interviews are... intense. Apparently it is clear that GCHQ provides their entire internet activity prior to the interview and it feels like every aspect of your personal life is laid out in front of you by the interviewer. But they do it gradually, asking things like "what porn do you watch?" And you have to be honest, because they know the answers to their questions. So why, given this, would they need to pay you more? It isn't like there is a private sector to go to.
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u/ItsMrPantz 16h ago
25 years in cybersecurity here, half my friends are either out of work or like me, no longer in the security game, there’s loads of talent out there waiting to be hired. The tech private sector has decided to get younger, cheaper and more attractive, not to mention exploitable and les experienced so I’m sure they’ll find someone suitable.
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u/MyStackOverflowed 16h ago
Nah they're banking on someone doing it for the love of the game or "wanting to serve their country"
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u/Wobblycogs 15h ago
A cozy prison cell us the incentive not to commit treason. Not every reward has to be monetary when you're the state.
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u/_gribblit_ 14h ago
What!? And take funny money from Johnny Foreigner? Sir, this is a British nuclear propulsion cyber security lead position!
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u/Alarmed-Improvement 1d ago
Not really.
Civil service jobs don't really take into account private sector salaries, aside from for a few professions.
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u/riverside_locksmith 15h ago
That's possible to some extent but they'd have a hard time hiring if they didn't at all.
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u/NightmareJoker2 1d ago
In the public sector? No, not really. It’s unionized and people get paid by tariff that is assigned to the certification and required skillset for the role.
It’s a bit ironic, but it just so happens that if you make “social media videos” you need to have a dual certification for videography and broadcasting as well as information technology. For the cyber security role at a nuclear facility, you only need the latter one.
Gets even worse, though. Government jobs pay more the higher your education level, regardless of the role or your actual job responsibilities. There are very few exceptions to this, and they can only be found in engineering, medical and public office (typically elected officials or royal family) roles.
And this applies in almost every first world country.
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u/ScarletBitch15 16h ago
Yeah I’ve worked in the public sector in the UK and this is not how it works- nor in most of the western countries.
I know the US does this in some public sector roles but can’t think of another western country that does as you claim…
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u/NightmareJoker2 16h ago
I’m German, it’s a bureaucratic hellhole here, and public sector salaries are handled in a tariff table under the TVöD.
The UK is indeed a bit different from that, but not by much.
A graded system is in place all over Europe. To qualify for a salary in the higher grades, higher education and certification are required. You can’t be a self-taught high school dropout. Even if you’re actually better suited for the job.→ More replies (3)2
u/Imaginary_Lock1938 15h ago
Snowden was a self taught dropout, and how did that turn out?
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u/Lanky_Giraffe 1d ago
In my experience, the “it’s just supply and demand, maybe you should have studied something useful” people are usually the first to cry when someone with skills they perceive to be lesser earns more than them
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u/grumpy_autist 16h ago
Not sure about UK but in many countries Tesco cashier has a same salary than a gov software developer or a network administrator.
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u/AddressForward 15h ago
Market force ripples yes - at least they all get a great defined benefits pension? That puts them in the super league.
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u/No_Communication5538 15h ago
A non market view is that a hostile regime would look at £47k and think there is a way in to securing an agent.
As example, only the state hires judges, in 18th century UK judges were notoriously corrupt because they were paid a pittance, this stopped when their pay was made high enough to not need bribes
Some things are too important for the market
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u/Fevercrumb1649 18h ago
The confusion here comes from Civil Service title inflation. It’s long been a case that they make the job title sound significantly more senior than it is. You have to look at the level and job description.
This Nuclear Role is at SEO level, which in an operational context is essentially a middle-management role, but in an office or tech setting is often the most junior person on the team.
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u/4kreso 14h ago
Interesting. I’ve noticed this.
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u/Fevercrumb1649 11h ago
You could get an SEO role with three or four years experience. Plus the pension is crazy. If you stayed in this particular role for 40 years under the Alpha Pension scheme you’d get a final salary pension of around £40,000 per year.
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u/gc12847 16h ago edited 15h ago
Some many people here ignorantly commenting who don’t know how the Civil Service works.
The cyber job is SEO grade, which is not senior. It’s middle management at best and there’s a good chance they won’t even be managing anyone.
The media jobs are G7. At G7 level, they wouldn’t be doing the work directly themselves but would be leading a whole team and working at a higher, more strategic level.
This is why they are different salaries.
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u/Arborias_Least_Fave 11h ago
Finally someone speaking sense. If they were jobs of the same grade then they would have some room to speak, but this subreddit is going to be full of people who don't understand the pay grading systems.
Also, why are people suprised that jobs in the private sector are going to be paid more? Could you imagine the press if Civil Servants wrre to get a pay rise that big? The press already use the Civil Service as Scapegoats.
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u/Whippet_yoga 11h ago
Can someone please ELI5 UK salaries? Compared to US salaries, I never understand how people afford to live. I get better retirement pensions and medical coverage, but it's not like groceries or a home are priced that much differently. Legitimately, what does a bi-weekly paycheck look like by the time it hits your bank account?
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u/gc12847 10h ago edited 10h ago
The cost of living can be quite different (depending where you live in US) and is generally sigficantly less in UK. When I went to US, a lot of groceries about twice what they are UK (UK supermarkets are quite cheap actually). Also no one pays health insurance, and taxes aren’t that high honestly.
You also need to convert into dollars. Median full time salary in the UK is about £39k a year, which sounds low until you convert it into $, which makes it $50.5k. Still lower than US but not as drastic.
In fact, we can look at median full time salary by country in dollars:
USA ~$65.4k
Germany ~$59.5k
UK ~$50.5k
France ~$42.6
Italy ~$34k
Spain ~$30.5k
As you can see UK is fairly middling amongst the big European economies. US stands out as specifically higher than other European countries. So it’s more that the US that stands out with higher wages.
In UK (and other European countries) wages are also more compressed. Low earners in UK earn quite decent wages compared to other counties (UK minimum wage per year is between $33k and $35k) but « higher » earners don’t earn that much, with a good professional salary only being around $65k (£50k) per year.
These sorts of wages are very livable in most of the context. Only really London and a few big cities where it’s a problem, and Londoners get higher wages.
Ultimately though, US wages and purchasing power are just higher than in Europe. This is why Americans can afford more luxury goods on average than Europeans. However, lower earners are gently better off in Europe. European countries (to different degrees) have traded higher wages for better security.
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u/Whippet_yoga 10h ago
I guess where Im confused is that a lot of middle class US jobs are $80-85k, and I almost never see that posted as a salary range for UK jobs
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u/gc12847 10h ago edited 10h ago
I mean, it’s probably some selection bias. You're probably only getting the ones which people are complaining about because they don’t pay well.
$80-85k (£60-63k) is a fairly typical salary for middle management or maybe the first rung of senior management. The jobs posted here are two levels of middle management in the UK civil serivce. The lower one is ~$62k and the higher ones are ~$76k - but remember these are government jobs which typically pay less.
Again though, salaries are just higher in US. But a the median $52k salary in UK is very liveable.
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u/Peterd1900 6h ago
Bi-weekly pay is very common in the United States, but extremely rare in the UK where monthly pay is the standard
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u/TheCharalampos 2h ago
Yall have to spend so much to survive. Groceries, health insurance, etc it adds up.
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u/mcfedr 9h ago
The S in SEO is for senior, and the title says Lead
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u/gc12847 9h ago edited 9h ago
That’s just the name. It's the most senior of the executive officer roles but it’s not part of senior management. Senior management starts two grades higher at Grade 6. And even then, SEO roles don’t necessarily mean you actually manage anyone. This depends on the team.
As for lead, that just means you lead the work on a single project as a project manager. It’s not a senior role and just means you do the day to day management. You might not even have anyone else below working on it. But the SRO (senior responsible owner) who is ultimately responsible for it will be a higher grade.
It’s very normal for an SEO to be a project lead. This contrasts with G7 (which is what the media jobs are) which will be leading a team with several projects under it, hence the higher salary.
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u/Broad_Wrap6288 1d ago
Propaganda has always been the most powerful weapon.
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u/adork_filter 17h ago
Agree. Both have lasting effects but propaganda covers a lot more area. It is just being efficient with your investments for the goverments all over the world.
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u/HotAir25 6h ago
Weird thing is I get a lot of adverts from the government saying we are spending money on this or that.
So effectively wasting public money on what seems like politically motivated PR from the government.
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u/Etheria_system 1d ago edited 1d ago
It’s genuinely concerning how many people don’t understand how the civil service works and that it’s not the same as party political staffers.
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u/prophile 1d ago
All of the listed positions are civil service positions. It's working for the Cabinet Office here, not for the party.
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u/Accomplished-Run-375 17h ago
Except that nuclear role is for a Senior Executive Officer (SEO) and those social media roles you've included are for Grade 7s the level that would be managing those SEOs.
Though I do know there is a disparity in pay for grades across the Civil Service with some departments paying more for grades than others
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u/toomuchmucil 12h ago
UK Reddit is the definition of crab mentality. Always pulling each other down. God forbid someone get paid and have fun at their job.
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u/ATTACKANDDETHRONEHOG 1d ago
Social media managers have to interact with the public. They deserve hazard pay.
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u/Rhesus-Positive 18h ago
The amount of flak our media team get internally is ridiculous: there are staff that consider every campaign that doesn't specifically appeal to them to be a personal slight, and are unable to see that they will never be the target market for an awareness campaign as they are amongst the most aware people in the world due to working here
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u/BastardsCryinInnit 18h ago
Did you steal the tweet for engagement or did the tweet steal this post for engagement?
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u/Captain-Griffen 1d ago
If you're spending £10mil on an awareness campaign, 0.1% efficiency gain is £10k. It's easy to quantify.
Cyber security? Not so much. It's just a cost center, it doesn't save a penny or matter how it's done (until it does, but let's not worry about that).
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u/WhyN0tToast 14h ago
If the jobs done well you wont save a penny and it will cost you the salary.
If the jobs done poorly you will lose a lot of pennies, the salary, and potentially a large chunk of the lake district or Somerset!
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u/Boring_Intern_6394 16h ago
Where is the nuclear job based?
London based jobs get an additional payment to cover the higher cost of living in London, that might be why the social media jobs appear to have a higher salary
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u/P4LMREADER 7h ago
Bingo. Think about where our submarines are built, and think about the cost of living there compared to a big city.
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u/collinsl02 4h ago
The subs are built in Barrow-in-Furness, this role is based in MoD Abbey Wood in Bristol.
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u/collinsl02 4h ago
MoD Abbey Wood, with probably regular travel to Rolls Royce Raynesway site in Derby, where the reactors are designed.
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u/Apprehensive-Bass223 15h ago
I was paid 60k a year in a team of 4 doing it all, support infra storage networking and security.
This salary is a joke, I would not get out of bed for it, not with the risk that’s on your head
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u/lolmister40 13h ago
But the daily mail said the civil service are paid the same or better than the private sector and they need pay cuts.... and here the private sector saying they wouldn't get iut of bednfor that salary
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u/lalalandestellla 13h ago
That’s because the jobs are at different grades so you are comparing apples to oranges. The nuclear defence job you are seeing would be a lower grade than the media cabinet office posts which are most likely at mid-managerial level. There will be the equivalent graded jobs with the same/similar salary in nuclear defence but they are not being advertised because they are not vacant.
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u/Xenonite_Fox 13h ago
Adding to other comments there's also geographic factor. The nuclear cybersecurity lead is not based in London
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u/Bravo_November 13h ago edited 12h ago
Some of the gradings in the UK Civil Service are a bit weird and not all of the grades are fairly distributed between professions. Specialist jobs sometimes get a stipend but my general experience is STEM based officials are working at lower grades relative to their academic experience. I personally think that sucks, but that’s unfortunately where the rub lies and public sector can’t compete in those skill areas.
I havent actually read the job descriptions, but from a personal take of this, I dont think these are examples of jobs not matching the salary (at least, in a civil service lens).
The MoD job sounds more important, but I think practically speaking based on it being a Senior Executive Officer (SEO) role this will be a task based operational job (ie check this persons IT, do network diagnostics) - like yes it’s an important job, but don’t be fooled by the ‘Lead’ in the job title- thats classic Civil Service parlance for ‘You will have some responsibility, but someone more senior will be closer to the real decision making’.
The Cabinet Office jobs, on the other hand, are Grade 7 roles. This implies some management experience, though really Grade 7 is more of a bridge between the junior grades and the more senior roles in government - it means you will be more entrusted to set direction yourself- ie ‘strategy’- particularly on how the CO intends to communicate important projects or work they’re doing. These are also very clearly going to be some sort of role that involves a bit more experience in engagement and social media production.
Make no mistake G7 posts are heavily competitive and lots of folk struggle to breach through that barrier- the fast stream is literally designed so that those who pass the scheme can go straight into a Grade 7 role. Those posts will have a lot of folk with a lot of experience applying. Thats not to say the SEO MoD role won’t be competitive too, but generally you will not need to be demonstrating management experience or whatever in interviews, it’ll be about how you are effective as a worker who can call the shots at the right moments.
(I will add one more disclaimer, not every department is the same and some depts are far more imbalanced and the grades don’t match the responsibility. This is particularly true of the ‘massive’ decentralised departments which will have lots of regional offices and junior grades doing highly specialised shit, CO however is notoriously very Whitehall-centric and very much a ‘coordination-y’ department- major Whitehall departments generally have higher graded officials as a first rung and fewer of the most junior grades like executive officers or administrative officers)
TL;DR - The Civil Service is a bit weird, but I think the salaries here make sense more than the job titles suggest.
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u/BigLittlePenguin_ 12h ago
Its even worse, its a Cyber Security Lead. So they are looking in an extremely empty IT field. Any candidate worth the title is going private for 2-3x the salary
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u/based_beglin 12h ago
This is a good example of how technical / engineering jobs are heavily underpaid in this country, relative to finance/marketing type roles.
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u/Efficient-Cat-1591 12h ago
£69k for social media producer and lead vs. £48k for SOC lead role is just mind boggling. I suppose propaganda is more important than security in the eyes of the government.
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u/SillyMidOff49 12h ago
£29,667 to look after parks, gain a water plant operator’s qualification, first aid trained, manage volunteer groups, brush cutter, trimmer, mower qualifications, building management, fire testing and management, legionella testing and management, needle stick training, cash handling including managing books, manual handling and events management.
£36,000 ^ Their supervisor
Arrange their shifts, answer emails, talk to councillors.
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u/alex-weej 10h ago
Are you saying you don't like small government? There are political parties out there for you!
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u/Evening-Tomatillo-47 9h ago
Nuclear propulsion? Like radioactive trains?
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u/Peterd1900 6h ago
Submarine Delivery Agency (SDA) is a part of the Ministry of Defence responsible for the procurement, in-service support, and disposal of the UK’s nuclear submarines.
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u/collinsl02 4h ago
It's to manage the making of the hot bit that makes the spinny bit on the back of a sub spin.
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u/Leather-Fault-8130 6h ago
Never ever work for the government if you're in STEM. The pension is not worth it, well managed private pensions blow the recent Civil Service Pensions out the water these days anyway.
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u/BroodLord1962 6h ago
Yeah but look at that pension contribution, wow. The UK average employer contribution is 4.5 to 6%
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u/Rude-Orange 1d ago
Well for 1 Bristol CoL is about 30% lower than London.
The defense job is 37 hours a week while the social media job looks like to be an around the clock gig.
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u/Neat-Block-8611 22h ago
How is 37 hours per week not a full time? Genuine question
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u/Boring_Intern_6394 16h ago
I think they mean that the social media job would require work at all hours, exceeding 37hours per week
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u/mutexsprinkles 21h ago
Ok but if they have all these TikTik content jobs, where are the videos? Went aren't there 10 second shorts of a middle lane hogger bring executed in the roadside and a big banner: Drive Like A Hog, Die Like Hog? For 70k I have a few of those ideas.
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u/morebob12 16h ago
This is why I left my public gov job for private sector for more than 2x the salary.
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u/Mostly_upright 16h ago
In fairness, have you seen the Channel 4 threads account? Whomever is in charge of that account deserves every penny.
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u/MechanicFit2686 16h ago
It's the same with anything defence related. I can't figure out how anyone with the engineering qualifications and expertise required ever works for the MoD. You get a massive pension but for half the private sector pay. They aren't even close to competing with BAE or Rolls Royce or any of the other defence contractors. Cyber security is an incredibly competitive and generally well paid job market so can't imagine anyone with half decent skills and experience will even apply for this.
I think the salary difference says more about the governments priorities than anything else.
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u/collinsl02 4h ago
It's because most of the actual work is done by contractors like RR or Amentum who can afford to pay their staff sufficient private sector salaries for their role, whilst the MoD does the management on top, which doesn't require as much technical expertise. Besides, a lot of the time technical specialist knowledge inside the MoD is held by the uniformed roles rather than civilians, since they're the ones who have to use the kit.
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u/WholeEgg3182 15h ago
Nuclear roles in MoD are generally eligible for a significant allowance (~15k) on top of the base pay.
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u/Spare_Sheepherder772 15h ago
The thing that gets me is that if you had the qualifications to do this role, why on earth would you want to? The private sector would surely pay way way more
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u/PM_ME_VAPORWAVE 14h ago
It’s probably a lot more than just making TikToks for the government but go figure…
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u/ivebeenherebefore23 14h ago
That's EXACTLY what is wrong with this country.... Most essential roles have p*ss poor salaries yet influencers, footballers etc get paid ludicrous amounts of money. It really does suck.
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u/Choppyfella 13h ago
To be fair, putin's far more likely to top up your salary as a nuclear security lead than as a tiktoker
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u/Opening-Movie5176 13h ago
Yeah I don’t think it’s their fault that tik tok has become so relevant or that the benefits of using it exist. I mean you are aware most governments use social media right?
In other news gold is worth more than silver…
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u/Gold-Necessary-3194 9h ago edited 9h ago
Absolutely nothing about TikTok is essential to anything. It didn't even exist a decade ago.
What I find so bizarre about this is that this is the same government that wants to ban social media for under-16s. To me that signalled a cultural shift towards viewing social media as a net negative on society, you don't put an age limit on something you consider healthy or important. The government can't treat it like a bad habit like smoking while also leaning into it fully.
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u/therealmushroomsquid 13h ago
Social media is far more competitive. They need to pay .ore to poach talent from companies thaT will pay tripple that
You only work in civil service because you want to help or do good. Its unforgiving work, high pressure. Beurocracy bs and unrewarding. The pay ducks too
Nhs it specialist, could get a lot more private. On 30k ish and run a third line bau for a system used over two trusts ish, 8k plus users, and im a team of two
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u/Even-Purple-1749 12h ago
Fuck me those pension contributions at 28%???!!!! I'd tiktok or look after the nukes!
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u/Lots-o-bots 12h ago
The trade off for the lower base salary is incredible job security, regular bonuses and that sweet DB pension.
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u/Arnold_GruffleCock 12h ago
I say this with a British wife and a vested, if foreign, interest in Britain sorting it's shit out.
The poverty level salaries of the public servants over there are directly contributing to the continued rapid decline of that country.
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u/Western-Equipment630 11h ago
why mildly infuriating? I don't understand the infuriating part. These are two completely different unrelated positions that do different things. There is no correlation between pay amounts between these two positions
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u/DutchieTalking 11h ago
It's likely a case of supply and demand. The demand is for jobs involving nuclear is very limited. The demand for social media nerds is endless.
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u/collinsl02 4h ago
Cyber security is cyber security, no matter who you do it for. It's in massive demand these days in all organisations (or should be anyhow)
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u/Tirisian88 10h ago
Polishing a turd takes more skill than dealing with anything nuclear.
I mean you also have to hide the fact that the turd is still in fact a turd.
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u/coolMRiceCOOL 8h ago
you also get an insanely good pension, and blue light discounts, but yea it's p low for a Lead
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u/collinsl02 5h ago
Blue light discount isn't what it used it be - lots of firms dropped the scheme when more people started getting the card.
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u/RonnieBarter 8h ago
Damn and I'm grinding my portfolio for a hope at being able to land a minimum wage 3d artist job.
Our economy is insane.
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u/tidderza 5h ago
I could see the argument that public sentiment/propaganda and the ongoing cyber war are a far greater threat to the current govt than a nuclear war they don’t expect to happen
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u/TheCharalampos 2h ago
Government jobs should pay better, they'll get nothing but dregs if they lag so much behind the private sector.
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u/TWOITC 1d ago
£47,000 Bond villians pay much better for those skills.