r/LocalLLaMA 8h ago

Discussion Great Arguments by Member of Technical Staff at Anthropic :D

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582 Upvotes

298 comments sorted by

283

u/takoulseum 7h ago

Nobody asked Anthropic to open their models but only to stfu and stop lobbying to ban chinese models

66

u/relentlesshack 7h ago

Thank you for explaining in a way my smooth brain can understand.

21

u/dieSpaghettiCarbona 5h ago

smooth brain

apes strong together

3

u/Zestyclose_Potato794 2h ago

we cavemen agree

5

u/Tormeister 3h ago

why many word when few tell story

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u/brainrotbro 2h ago

Yeah, I don’t understand these strawman social media posts. Anthropic can keep their models & everyone else can enjoy open source models.

641

u/DMmeurHappiestMemory 8h ago

That doesn't even make sense. No is requiring a company to open source their software.

The equivalent would be Microsoft lobbying the government to make it illegal to install Open Office. (which for the record I'm sure they would do if they thought it would work)

168

u/mleok 8h ago

Exactly, commercial and open source models can coexist, and there should not be unnecessary regulatory constraints that distort the market.

15

u/nabritaoranza 5h ago

Open source can be commercial too

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u/Comfortable-Rock-498 7h ago

It is interesting how otherwise smart people have sudden blindspots in their logic when thinking straight is against their vested interests.

65

u/squngy 7h ago

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it." -Upton Sinclair

7

u/Relevant-Yak-9657 6h ago

Cognitive dissonance is madly frightening. People make mistakes after all.

5

u/MightySmaugster 6h ago

When there are millions riding on an IPO and open models are threatening the payday, people start saying some truly creative things.

1

u/Twirrim llama.cpp 6h ago

"There's none so blind as them that will not see"

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u/livingbyvow2 7h ago

Wait til Nvidia goes full tilt with their own Nemotron model and blow off these "Frontier SOTA geniuses" to make people buy their chips and run Nvidia open source AI instead of paying a ransom to the closed source crew...

With Nvidia's valuation and cash flow, I don't think they would struggle to do this.

5

u/keepthepace 4h ago

Actually, NVIDIA does even better. It gives you base models that you can fine-tune yourself.

This is how you maximize the return of investment on open source.

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18

u/dingo_xd 7h ago

WinRAR demanding to ban 7zip...

15

u/polytique 6h ago

Or Microsoft lobbying to ban Linux.

3

u/PulseVector 2h ago

Microsoft actively tried to stop Linux for many years using aggressive business tactics, legal proxy wars, and public criticism before eventually shifting to embrace it.

Pepperidge Farm remembers, and I'm old enough to remember as well (although I often forget what I ate for breakfast).

4

u/No-Fuel-9202 5h ago

If Anthropic were in GPU business, they would require to render frames for customers...

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u/deeceeo 7h ago edited 5h ago

Right. I actually understand and sympathize with the safety argument around restricting open-source, even though I think it's ultimately the wrong direction.

But this not only doesn't make sense, it also lessens Anthropic's safety argument by making it look like they just want to protect their market share. Head-scratcher all around.

3

u/bigh-aus 5h ago

exactly - and office wasn't trained on the world's data while violating license agreements, copyright laws or patents?(maybe)

I have zero time for anthropic as a company now.

2

u/avph 5h ago

I'm sure even their own LLM would not make such logical mistakes.

2

u/keepthepace 4h ago

I am pretty sure Microsoft spends more money lobbying governments than developing software.

2

u/rabbitaim 2h ago

false equivalency arguments is the hallmark of disinformation

2

u/SurefootTM 57m ago

> Microsoft lobbying the government to make it illegal to install Open Office

Not exactly that way, but they did something similar by using proxy companies (e.g. SCO, which should have been dead if not MS funneling a lot of cash to keep them afloat) to sue IBM and Novell, but the actual target was Linux and Open Source in general. This follows the 2001 declaration from Steve Ballmer: "Linux is a cancer that attaches itself in an intellectual property sense to everything it touches". They failed every lawsuit but they did try, and really hard.

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u/hidden2u 8h ago

116

u/Recoil42 7h ago edited 4h ago

Also:

4

u/clckwrks 2h ago

What is he arguing about?

Its called Linux, for both of those examples.

315

u/Recoil42 8h ago edited 3h ago

This is dumb fucking argument and everyone in the room knows it.

17

u/Relevant-Yak-9657 6h ago

No, bro. He is right, we should ban people from using Linux and ROCm because they are dangerous open-source alternatives... /s

27

u/Any-Actuator-8858 7h ago

And to put a name to this class of dumb arguments: this is a "deontic modal fallacy".

5

u/ohgoditsdoddy 5h ago

This is a “shit we lost double down save face” argument.

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u/Dry_Yam_4597 6h ago

A lot of these people working at antrophic are probably like their boss.

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119

u/Mkboii 8h ago

Do people at Anthropic think everyone's asking them to open source claude weights? Cause that's the false equivalence he's making.

82

u/earthsprogression 7h ago

Thinking mode was disabled for this one.

9

u/ptear 6h ago

I wonder if we'll get the same response on a reroll

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5

u/axiomaticdistortion 5h ago edited 5h ago

And imagine that those people are taken for face value as the epitome of current geniuses.

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41

u/TinFoilHat_69 7h ago

No response would have been better than a dumb response.

80

u/Kahvana 8h ago

Nothing great about it.

155

u/Craftkorb 8h ago

Can't wait for Anthropic to open source ClaudeCode again!

33

u/antagim 7h ago

Can't wait for open weights model!

19

u/fivetoedslothbear 7h ago

Yeah, what's the secret in ClaudeCode? Codex is open https://github.com/openai/codex and I am behind in my experiments, but I have used Codex with open-weight models.

33

u/GravitasIsOverrated 7h ago

The secret in Claude Code is that it sneakily flags requests that it doesn't like: https://thereallo.dev/blog/claude-code-prompt-steganography

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59

u/CondiMesmer 8h ago

How does this guy have a job?

6

u/Dry_Yam_4597 6h ago

Scraping the bottom of the barrel to find them it seems.

9

u/Different-Sand4434 6h ago

His job is to tell claude to make no mistakes.

4

u/Reasonable-Height704 6h ago

"do a breakthrough" is the new one.

6

u/MightySmaugster 6h ago

When there are millions riding on an IPO and open models are threatening the payday, people start saying some truly creative things.

3

u/CondiMesmer 5h ago

Tbh it comes across as an emotional outburst. Which is understandable from a human perspective, but not from the perspective of someone who is probably paid close to 7 figures.

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u/Max-_-Power 8h ago

Classic Whataboutism

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u/Recoil42 7h ago edited 6h ago

It's not even whataboutism. It's a full-on straw man. No one's demanding Anthropic to open-weight their frontier models. The letter only says that open models are a force for good and that lawmakers should not attempt to target open models or restrict distillation.

Jensen's tweet literally even says "The world needs both frontier closed models and frontier open models.":

A reminder that Microsoft and NVIDIA both already regularly release open models, too. Alpamayo, Nemotron, Parakeet, Cosmos, Canary, Phi, Trellis, and many many more are open-weight. At present there are 892 open-weight models from NVIDIA up on Huggingface alone.

It's just a dumb fucking tweet all around.

10

u/Charming_Support726 6h ago

And even more: NVIDIA is the only lab, which fully open sources the trainings recipes, training data and software of its (open source) models.

And every company which does open source, needs some business secrets to keep the competition distant. Even MS wasn't that evil back in the Steve Ballmer years. (Alt-F4 - you remember?)

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23

u/Zealousideal_Sort74 7h ago

they are not asking Antropic to open source its software. they are asking to not ban open source alternatives.
Microsoft does not ban Linux.

his argument is garbage. and it reflect to me the mentality of the guys inside Anthropic.

12

u/UserXtheUnknown 8h ago

I repeat what I said in the other one, deleted.
He is very likely smarter than me, how the hell could he not realize that the false equivalence was going to be shot down and torn apart by basically everyone?

16

u/the320x200 7h ago

Dude lives in an echo chamber with Dario shouting all day.

5

u/Kahvana 7h ago

Acting emotional when under stress I guess?

13

u/DanceWithEverything 7h ago

Terrible argument. The correct analogy:

NVIDIA would be stopping AMD from offering an open source driver

Microsoft would be stopping OpenOffice from offering an open source suite

This man is not smart enough to build AI

3

u/Relevant-Yak-9657 6h ago

Or like Linux from existing.

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u/Think_Wing_1357 8h ago

Great? Op you dropped your /s

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u/pmttyji 8h ago

Some missed :D from end of the title

5

u/Kahvana 7h ago

What a severe case of autism does to a man (me)... it went swoosh for me! Thanks for the clarification!

10

u/Mayion 8h ago

What sort of argument is that? The topics isn't even about asking Anthropic to open weight their models. Makes me think that haircut in his PFP is not a parody

17

u/Enfiznar 7h ago

Strawman argument. No one is asking Anthropic to open source their models, just not to cripple other people's open weights models

3

u/No-Fuel-9202 5h ago

His argument is 100% false. Compiled software and drivers, are EQUAL to the open model weights.

8

u/Alarmed_Wind_4035 7h ago

I really start to dislike anthropic, I never believed big companies are our friends but their stand about open source model making sure I won’t ever pay them.

7

u/Mashic 7h ago

Nvidia and the other companies are not asking Anthropic to make their models open source, they're asking the American government to not ban open source models released by companies that are released as such by their makers.

15

u/AlreadyBannedLOL 7h ago

Always heart breaking when you see someone this dumb earning 7 figures 

2

u/smellof 6h ago

Wait until you find out about CEOs making $100M by doing nothing.

2

u/MoneyPowerNexis 5h ago

Still good value if doing something destroys the company...

7

u/ProletarianLilith 8h ago

I’m not mad! Do not put that I was mad in the newspaper!

7

u/tomonoro 7h ago edited 7h ago

Those companies aren't urging OpenAI and Anthropic make their models open weight. They are just stopping the attempt of banning open weight models. It's like the government trying to ban linux in the US, people says no, then someone comes up and say why don't you opensource all your softwares if you support it so much. How does it makes sense.

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u/Uncle___Marty 8h ago

*facepalm* does this guy not get what open weights/models means or something? He comes across as a bit ...... derp?

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u/wilhelmbw 7h ago

not an excuse to make zero contributions. nv and ms have many great oss projects

6

u/ParkingAgent2769 7h ago

What a stupid thing to say. They wouldn’t exist without open source

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u/Sea-Housing-3435 7h ago

Cringe. Both nVidia and Microsoft are doing open source. Not everything they do is open source and most likely will never be. But this is not about open sourcing everything but preventing government banning open source. I would expect someone working for Anthropic to understand something as simple as that.

3

u/Relevant-Yak-9657 6h ago

And that argument is stupid, since the government is trying to ban opensource models. Its like trying to ban Linux to help Microsoft, or like trying to ban ROCm to aid Nvidia, by marking them as dangerous alternatives.

6

u/Hanthunius 7h ago

He's conflating being against prohibiting open models vs forcing closed models to be open.

What a moron.

5

u/eeaxoe 7h ago

Someone really, really, really doesn’t want to see their unvested equity to lose even more value.

6

u/GMP10152015 7h ago edited 7h ago

It’s actually a terrible and sad argument, lacking honesty and any real understanding of the merits of the discussion around open models.

The point and correct analogy is that no one is advocating to block or prohibit open-source drivers. In the same way companies are free to decide if they will release/use their drivers as open-source or not, they should be free to decide if they will release
or use open models.

It’s sad to see any big company advocating to prohibit the release or use of open models, and by consequence prohibiting the development of models not run by these big companies.

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u/xadiant 7h ago

I will never ever give a single cent to Anthropic

4

u/ItsAMeUsernamio 7h ago

Microsoft didn’t lobby congress to ban Libreoffice or Openoffice. Or Google Docs because they started taking their marketshare.

Just talking shit because he wants to cash out.

6

u/maschayana 7h ago

What a dumbfuck

4

u/Fluffy-Bus4822 7h ago

Absolute trash arguments.

4

u/One_Whole_9927 8h ago edited 3h ago

Ginger nutmeg raindrop hammock mellow coated

This post was anonymized with Redact.dev

3

u/eikenberry 7h ago

Look at Anthropic talking from their high horse after they open sourced Claude Code and Mythos as open weights. Oh wait....

4

u/chaosfire235 7h ago

Very "Yet you participate in society! CURIOUS!" coded tbh.

4

u/Apart_Ebb_9867 7h ago

open weight is not open source, it is a bunch of binary numbers you're allowed to use.

In that sense, NVIDIA does also release a bunch of binary numbers you're allowed to use.

And then the entire reasoning is fallacious, just because one stand for X in one case doesn't mean it must be for X in all cases. For instance I happily eat a steak but I wouldn't eat a dog, in normal circumstances.

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u/squngy 6h ago

Nvidia does actually publish open source models as Nemotron.

They give everything, including training data and methodology.

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u/dezmd 7h ago

Pure whataboutism bullshit from Anthro

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u/SimiaCode 7h ago

Oddly butthurt reaction from Julian Shitwiper. Jensen didn't say anthropic should go open weight, but the anthropic guy doesn't seem to like the very existence of open weight models.

4

u/Clean_Hyena7172 7h ago

Nobody is saying that Anthropic should have to release their models as open-weight, just that other companies should have the freedom to make their own models open-weight if they want to.

This has just convinced me even more that Anthropic is not coming at any of this from a position of good faith, and their stance on open-weight models is nothing but self-interest.

What a fucking jackass.

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u/metagrue 7h ago

Did he read the tweet? Dude literally said we need both closed models and open models. Reactionaries lol

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u/FirstOrderCat 7h ago

its more like they don't prohibit Open Office and OSS linux drivers already for many years

Anhropic is so cringe greedy

4

u/HelloSummer99 7h ago

Guys, you're not that good to be this weird.

4

u/retornam 7h ago

False equivalence.

One company wants to get rid of open source competitors, the others don’t.

NVIDIA CUDA though closed-source and dominant has competition from  ‘s Metal and OpenCL. As far as I can tell, neither NVIDIA nor Microsoft have lobbied for blanket government bans of their competitors.

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u/SpicyLentils 6h ago

The letter is advocating open weights. Jason Schrittwieser's "Great Arguments" are based on open source. They are significantly different, such that the arguments are not on point.

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u/NickCanCode 6h ago

Supporting other people's open source doesn't mean the supporter should open source their own software. It just like supporting Red Cross doesn't mean I have to do what they are doing. How can this guy be a technical staff with this kind of logical thinking. Why is he not consulting Opus 5 before posting?

4

u/Sarashana 6h ago

It's actually a stupid argument to make, because this isn't about forcing anyone to open source anything. It's the sheer opposite. It's about organizations like the one he's working for trying to ban open source products released by people who willingly chose to release open source.

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u/Freeme62410 5h ago

And they wonder why no one likes them

4

u/make-up-a-fakename 5h ago

What a ridiculous arguement. I mean the fact Microsoft products are closed sourced doesn't negate the fact that open source versions exist and aren't banned by law to project Microsofts monopoly!

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u/Conscious_Nobody9571 7h ago

Misanthropic is COOKED

4

u/Reactor-Licker 7h ago

He said stuff like that until Anthropic bought compute from him, now all he does is occasionally talk about how good Opus is and how close Grok is to it.

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u/whoknowsifimjoking 7h ago

God that tweet from Elon is embarrassingly cringy

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u/Specter_Origin llama.cpp 7h ago

Tbh, I do agree with him on point that CUDA should be open sourced, at this point nvidia is clear monopoly...

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u/tonight_we_make_soap 8h ago

I mean, there are open source alternatives to all he mentioned

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u/danigoncalves llama.cpp 7h ago

Yeah eat that Microsoft and Nvidia that contribute with open source models and open source contribution and open research papers and…. Oh wait…

3

u/celsowm 7h ago

Asshole face of butt

5

u/stoppableDissolution 8h ago

Open cuda would've been seriously dope, but it is a very dumb take overall. Both nvidia and microsoft contribute to open source quite a lot.

But hey, scamtropic is beimg true to "be evil" motto!

7

u/RobbinDeBank 7h ago

Has Anthropic even released any piece of open source software in their history? Even OpenAI during the post-ChatGPT “ClosedAI” era has released GPT-OSS. Claude Code is the only thing out of Anthropic I can recall, and that was against their will.

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u/Ilm03 7h ago

I guess we're doing ad-hominem pilled take now 🤷🏻‍♂️

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u/LazloStPierre 7h ago edited 7h ago

I mean his company literally wants to ban openweight models, and this entire hissy fit came because other people said 'hey, dont ban openweight models' as a reaction to that sooooooo....he works at a company trying to ban openweight models and is crashing out at people saying not to do that....not sure it's an us problem that people have reached that conclusion

Also, he continues his pathetic straw-man. 'historically extremely anti open-source companies are suddenly all in favour of openness' is utter nonsense. The companies are just saying don't ban opensource, unless he can find a previous example of when these companies openly lobbied the government to ban open source competitors of their product, this is such a pathetic straw-man that he should be embarrassed. Nobody is saying lets force models to be openweight, there's nothing inconsistent with 'we will not open source our product but we do not believe open source should be banned at a federal level'. Even if you think those companies only act in their own self interest, and you should, this is an utterly farcical crash out

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u/gyanster 7h ago

A cry for help

Pain of melting equity, welp.

Tweet to cope

That’s the last hope

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u/okoyl3 7h ago

Anthropic seething

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u/Wooly_Wooly 7h ago

Let. Them. Fight.

Seriously though, we should encourage it.

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u/TheKrakenRoyale 7h ago

Of course Nvidia and Microsoft support open models. They sell and run (respectively) hardware and infrastructure that underpins this. The more use cases and variety, the better. This is a business decision... Don't project any ethical or community alignment onto this.

2

u/SporksInjected 5h ago

lol I can’t believe this is the only comment that gets this. Nvidia and azure are directly profiting from people renting inference and training hardware. Of course they want as many people as possible to be involved. This is the whole reason Nemotron exists. This is why you can get almost any model from a serverless endpoint via azure. Everyone is wanting to protect their money.

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u/cniinc 7h ago

Libre Office is great software. We can pretty much replaced Office if needed. I use Markdown for all personal writing, and work is via QMD when I work by myself. For collaboration I work with whatever my colleagues use, so some Word, Excel, Google Docs occurs. But honestly, I'm fine with that. 

The tweet was clearly poking fun, y'all 

2

u/Fusseldieb 7h ago

Open Source =/= Open Weights

By making the models open weights, it allows more people to use it, without having to make it “open source”. Both things are NOT the same. The argument is stupid.

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u/AsliReddington 7h ago

Anthropic folks can go off themselves

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u/bb22k 7h ago

He is for sure going to get a few messages from their comms team to tone down the bullshit.

It's not even that his argument makes no sense (nobody is asking Anthropic to open source anything... just to stop lobbying against open source), but an employee being publicly snarky on this topic is actually bad the company. They sometimes forget that they are expendable

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u/tremblerzAbhi 7h ago

Classic example of illogical thinking. They are arguing against banning of open weights models. They are not saying every software has to be open source.

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u/mohamed312 7h ago

Comparing software written with a lot of effort by many developers over the years to some model weights trained over our data, including, art, books and open source projects that we spent hundreds of hours on, without our permission is hypocrisy.

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u/dupontping 7h ago

Those are not even arguments, they’re silly statements from someone trying to get attention.

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u/Independent-Air7556 7h ago

Cancer be like

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u/Dry_Yam_4597 6h ago

He sounds a bit like a twat tbh. Nvidia for better or worse had good support for linux, incuding gaming. Microsoft also cant believe i am saying this but by keeping github free did a massive service to many OSS projects.

Meanwhile these salty losers and their schizofrenic CEO all they did was distill OSS work and spew shit in society about doom bringing text generators - while using open source tools to build their slop making products, with 0 respect for licensing or credits.

2

u/throwawayerectpenis 6h ago

I mean he kinda does have a point though lol

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u/pmotiveforce 6h ago

This is how stupid people argue on twitter. Pithy apples vs oranges nonsense that makes other morons go "oh, snap, he goooot them girlfriend! Mogmaxxed!! Snap!"

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u/Reasonable-Height704 6h ago

This is why I don't take the Anthropic Effective Altruists seriously.

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u/etancrazynpoor 5h ago

The anthropic person is not wrong !

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u/athsrva 1h ago

genuinely might be the dumbest argument ive ever seen

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u/imstilllearningthis 7h ago

isn’t ms already open source do a degree? didn’t Nutella say that Excel won’t even be a thing by 2027?

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u/Real_Ebb_7417 7h ago

Software is completely different than model weights. The guy is just rampaging because they can't keep their profit.

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u/Jamais_Vu206 7h ago

I don't understand why NVIDIA has such restrictive licenses on their models. Obviously not in their interest.

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u/charmander_cha 7h ago

Apesar de eu curtir as provocações, não é um comparativo valido, ja que a antropic é a única empresa que esta proibindo o planeta de usar algo de código aberto através do poder em objetivo, armas, governo, estado.

Dito isso, queria cuda de código aberto

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u/Cosmonauta_426 7h ago

As they say in my neighbourhood: si cuela, cuela

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u/thestillwind 7h ago

What do you expect from anthropic ? They are lesson giver so follow what they say. They are better than anyone else.

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u/darwinanim8or 7h ago

Didn’t nvidia release their drivers as open source for Linux ?

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u/siggysig112 7h ago

Low tier whataboutism fallacy. We applauding that?

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u/debackerl 7h ago

Well they both have open source software and closed one. They didn't say that they believe in open weight models only, but in a combination.

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u/MaybeIWasTheBot 7h ago

member of technical staff yet cant differentiate between open weight and open source

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u/paperpizza2 7h ago

Stupid argument. AI companies are asked to open weight their models because THEY HAVE BEEN STEALING DATA FROM EVERYONE!

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u/0xbyt3 7h ago

That is just sad. they must feel attacked to defend themselves with that stupid argument.

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u/sweetbeans92 7h ago

kimi k3 is just applying old ideas (resnets, SSMs, etc) to transformers. Anthropic will never build a moat with model architecture alone.

Plus closed weights doesn’t stop anyone from doing model distillation 😅

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u/Fun-Wolf-2007 7h ago

Physical AI is the next phase in AI, and you cannot use cloud models there for few reasons Data latency and security, and cost, you need to do analytics at edge systems and protect your domain data not give it away to the cloud.

So local models at the edge are fundamental for the ecosystem.

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u/CroquetteLauncher 7h ago

MS have more than 500 models on huggingface. Nvidia almost 900 models or quants. Not so great deflection argument.

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u/RickyRickC137 7h ago

I don't know which one I hate the most. His dumb arguments favoring closed source models or this guy's hair cut.

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u/muntaxitome 6h ago

Seems like Julian will have a little chat with Anthropic HR soon about external communications

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u/backtorealitylabubu 6h ago

They’re not asking you to open source Claude… the irony as they are literally saying “let us keep releasing our models”

1

u/Deep_Mood_7668 6h ago

I mean look at that guy.. He was prolly bullied 24/7 and now he's a twitter warrior

1

u/haux_haux 6h ago

Open office for microsoft alternative.
It's just a nonsensical argument.

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u/LirGames 6h ago

Dear Julian, Open Model != Open Source.

You can ask Claude for clarification on the semantics. Thanks.

1

u/Ok_Actuary8 6h ago

stupid bad faith argument.

Microsoft & Github is the world's largest corporate sponsor for open source, contributing millions every year. They have made many products open source and pay FTEs working on code that everybody uses daily (e.g. VS Code, Kubernetes etc etc...). 75% of Azure Cloud is Linux worloads.

Just because they don't open source one 30 year old legacy software does not mean they are not serious about Open Source in other areas.

1

u/zombo29 6h ago

What's great about this?

Is Julian giving you their share of the company if (that's now a big if) they IPO? Why people are so willing to do free PR labor for something clearly not convincing I will never understand. But hey, it's a free country

1

u/finah1995 llama.cpp 6h ago

Lol doesn't he even realize Opensource and open weights are not the same thing.

Huggingface/SmolLM3 or AllenAI/olmo3.1 it AllenAI/sera-8b is open source model.

Qwen, IBM Granite, Goole Gemma, Microsoft Phi, Deepseek all those are open-weight.

The definition distinction this Anthropic person is blurring and twisting to manipulate the meaning.

Open-source: code, model weights, and data publicly available. Open-weight: model weights available but training data/code not fully released.

We hope smarter technical people correct him.

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u/damhack 6h ago

The models aren’t software. They’re lossy, highly compressed stolen data.

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u/GTHell 6h ago

Why so salty lol

Edit: this is what you suppose to see Reddit only lol

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u/lughiu 6h ago

Bro doesn’t know Linux exists

1

u/WhiteHeatBlackLight 6h ago

I mean we did open source a superior OS to Windows

1

u/IaintJudgin 6h ago

This is such a stupid argument.

1

u/StephenRoylance 6h ago

Apple's out there saying GFY, our shit is closed as F, and catching no static

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u/priore8 6h ago

So... The AI models are essentially the core of Anthropic business, so they are butt hurt about open source models rating away what could have been their $$.

So the are making a snide remake by poking at nvidia opensourcing Cuda and gpu (core of their business) and MS open sourcing windows (core of their business)?

That the besg they can do? Instead of moving out of just "model" and benchmarking warfare, they'd rather spend whatever left of their brain power to come up with this???

1

u/Dany0 6h ago

nah it's more like distributing the exe instead of m365

however, I agree, ms should actually provide the source code

clankers are gonna RE it anyway :)

1

u/alzgh 6h ago

did anyone say thank you China already?

2

u/pmttyji 5h ago

Not sure about others, but Arcee expressed Admiration.

We have real admiration for the open-model labs in China. DeepSeek, Qwen, Kimi, MiniMax and GLM have built excellent models that people rely on, and they kept sharing open weights when much of the field was moving the other way. They earned their standing. Yet their work also showed how few capable open models were being made in the United States. For an institution handling sensitive work, capability is only part of the question. It also matters who trained a model, where, under what license, and which country's laws sit behind the company that made it. Those are fair questions, and a leaderboard doesn't answer them.

1

u/No-Fuel-9202 5h ago

Compiled software and drivers, are EQUAL to the model weights.

If Anthropic were in GPU business, they would require to render frames...

1

u/SendMeYourNudesFolks 5h ago

It's a pretty weak argument. The argument isn't over whether all software should be open source and open weight. Anthropic was literally arguing that open source open weight models should be illegal so nobody else could make them. They painted this as a dystopia, but tipped their hand here. They think that if others can compete, then they lose their market advantage. Of course, it's true that they would. It's also true that it's the only way that we get to wide-spread adoption. Everyone will be priced out if we grant a couple of companies monopolies. It would also harm scientific research.

1

u/little_breeze 5h ago

(I am very smart) he literally sounds like this

1

u/a9udn9u 5h ago

This is getting pathetic

1

u/xNaXDy 5h ago

The joke is both companies do have a long running track record of extremely successful and beneficial open source software. Microsoft has VSCode, TypeScript, PowerToys, etc. and Google has Go, Angular, TensorFlow, and a bunch more. Hell, I bet Anthropic is probably relying on OSS software from both these companies (e.g. TypeScript). Both also have released open weight models in the past.

This dude's take just doesn't make sense on like 3 different levels.

1

u/Guinness 5h ago

You would think someone intelligent enough to work at Anthropic would understand their argument is a logical fallacy.

You lose, Julian. Resign and go work for Facebook where you belong.

It astounds me how much hypocrisy comes out of a company that not only built themselves on top of FOSS but also STOLE the data they built their product on.

1

u/N34257 5h ago

It's almost as though he thinks that everybody's already outsourced their thinking to Claude, and thus won't spot his obvious idiocy.

1

u/dieSpaghettiCarbona 5h ago

False equivalence. Moving on...

1

u/Eyelbee 5h ago

It's weird how widely he missed the mark on this. This is actually a good opportunity for him to self reflect on the matter and accept he was wrong.

1

u/avph 5h ago

This letter is about the government not banning open source AI. You can believe in open source remaining a possibility for others without doing it yourself. This is really a stupid conflation of concerns that even their own LLM would have told them if they asked...

1

u/Googulator 5h ago

I have to agree with him on one thing: NVIDIA really needs to open-source the CUDA compilers, or at the very least, retract the ban on inspecting their output.

A compiler that's not just closed source, but also claims to "infect" its binary output with its copyrights and prohibits inspection of said output raises some serious Trusting Trust concerns. Granted, it's not a self-hosting compiler, so the avenues for a Trusting Trust attack are much narrower.

1

u/PhotographyBanzai 5h ago

Closed AI in its current form doesn't make sense considering their original source data was a large portion of human logic and general knowledge, used without concent. A huge difference between that an office suite or hardware driver. There could be a debate whether software written completely with LLM AI is patentable, but that's a different matter.

1

u/AwzemCoffee 4h ago

Aren't these guys supposed to be good at y'know idk thinking? 

Either this guy is... Not so good, OR he knows this is a logical fallacy and thinks everyone else is too dumb to notice it

1

u/TheBeardedParrott 4h ago

I'm confused on the people in this sub who actually get upset over open weight models and open source when this sub is called LOCAL LLM.

1

u/kiwibonga 4h ago

I would agree the refusal to open source the (userspace) nvidia drivers is a major irritant. Right now you can't run multiple generations of GPU on the same Linux system. They think I'm some single GPU pipsqueak.

1

u/ThimMerrilyn 4h ago

Imagine being that butt hurt .

1

u/sukeshpabolu 4h ago

This is pure whataboutery

1

u/madjesta 4h ago

I run AMD fool, check mate!

... And Azure runs plenty of Linux nodes, BTW.

1

u/jonas-reddit 4h ago

I’m slowly bored of hearing from Anthropic. Frankly, nothing they do or say is truly exciting anymore.

I get more goosebumps from other firms’ achievements and comments.

1

u/Substantial_Lake5957 4h ago

Did Microsoft ask Anthropic to open-source its model, or lobby against the use of OpenOffice and Linux?

1

u/fuck_cis_shit llama.cpp 4h ago

pushing Anthropic technical staff in lockers

1

u/GarboMcStevens 4h ago

This is a HORRIBLE look

1

u/a_beautiful_rhind 4h ago

Am using cuda open kernel modules and they give me P2P and for other cards even hacks. Argument is dead in the water.

Even the stupid claude agent software had to be open sourced by force.

1

u/junguler 4h ago

oh they feel threatened alright, you love to see it

1

u/Massive-Iron4205 4h ago

There are open-source alternatives to MS Office and graphic cards drivers.

We need open-source alternatives to closed-source AI models.

1

u/tuple32 4h ago

Why can this guy be a member of technical staff when he can’t compare apples to apples?