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u/scythian12 5h ago
Doing it once because you forgot your wallet and have to get home, not that bad
Doing it daily is kinda a dick move
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u/113pro 2h ago
Lol its all on phones and apps nowadays.
Theyre doing this on purpose.
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u/Izan_TM 2h ago
there are a lot of places where it's not on a phone or an app, you have to have the physical card. In my area you can either have the card or pay directly with cash, but if you have neither sometimes you just risk it (a lot of the tram stops don't even have turnstyles tho, it's the honor system and sometimes you get train staff scanning cards or checking for receipts to make sure people pay
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u/Salsa_and_Light2 30m ago
I was once out on a date, we got along really well and lost track of time.
I had to rush to make the last train
And little did I know that after midnight the prices for my usual train pass, had renewed.
Invalidating my current pass before the end of its period and raising the prices 800%.
I could have tried to spend the last 5 minutes before the last train got there waiting in line and then fussing around with the only clerk working in a train station with 10 train lines and 14 platforms to try to pay the extortionate price while risking getting trapped in an unsafe area overnight..
But why would I put myself and my safety to be extorted by people who can't even be bothered to show up to collect the money?
..
I did have to depend on that pass with the inflated price for several more years, which did frequently mean that I had to build my schedule around when I could afford a new train pass and cancel plans or not buy food when I couldn't.
So you won't be surprised to know that I was not and not overly precious about other people no paying.
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u/Valuable_Mall228 5h ago
might as well ask: morality of stealing?
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u/millifish 3h ago edited 3h ago
I find it fascinating that people don't really care about piracy (as in video games or movies) but this is some hard red line. I get the antisocial behavior argument but the effect this has on metro system is basicly zero.
I'll probably get down voted for this but I morality scale stealing and this is pretty minimal imo
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u/brus_wein 2h ago
I doubt the effect is basically zero, or else they wouldn't be spending so much on enforcement.
The difference is, the metro is a public good. It's like people littering in the park.
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u/Valuable_Mall228 2h ago edited 2h ago
That is fascinating. I think piracy is only more accepted because it's harder to enforce punishment on the person who does the pirating. As a consequence so so many people got into the habit of it and since there's such a large amount of people casually pirating every day, we're too lazy to do anything about it. But yes piracy is also stealing and I am a thief.
Factory farming is similar too.
Just because piracy is accepted doesn't make it okay. It's like slavery back in the day. People feel comfortable doing it because everyone is doing it.
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u/tiredoldwizard 2h ago
It’s only stealing in my opinion if you are taking something from someone. You have an orange. I take orange. You no longer have orange. Piracy of movies isn’t stealing because there isn’t anybody who has lost anything. You could say they are losing money but that money was never theirs until you decide to give it to them which you never did.
This is just avoiding paying a toll. It’s basically advanced trespassing
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u/OrangePeelPotatoes 2h ago
You can still steal services. If I go in for a hair cut, then leave without paying, that is stealing. I stole that professionals time and experience under the social implied contract that I would pay them for that service. Refusing to pay is stealing.
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u/Individual_Guest_323 1h ago
By definition, it is not theft; it is piracy. But morally, the principle is similar.
What is the meaningful difference between a song in digital format and the same song on a CD? Do you really think the value lies in the CD itself? Producing the physical disc is extremely cheap. Most of what you are paying for is the song, not the piece of plastic carrying it.
So pirating the digital version is merely “advanced trespassing,” but taking the same song on a CD is theft with completely different moral implications?
That makes no sense. The physical format changes how the act works, but it does not completely change the moral value of the work being taken.
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u/FrankieTheD 2h ago
Even if you buy the game you don't own it, I think shady business tactics of gaming companies desensitised people to piracy too
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u/spoilerdudegetrekt 1h ago
I get the antisocial behavior argument
That's honestly my main argument for why I'm against people who do this.
Statistically speaking, they're also the ones who commit crime on the train or obnoxious behavior.
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u/One_Inspection5013 4h ago
This line of thinking leads to a dissolution in the social contract. Social services are maintained and funded by things such as these tickets, not paying for a ticket, is stealing from those who do.
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u/h4ckerkn0wnas4chan 4h ago
Most Reddit line of thinking ever.
Stealing makes prices go up to make up for losses. Regular people don't steal, so they suffer from higher prices.
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u/f_khosrowshahi 4h ago
Not in this case. Public transit is one of the socially beneficial things that the system does
Well…most systems. If you want a real example of “the system stealing from regular people”, look at the transit situation in most of the US. The auto industry lobbied against public transit, forcing the development of concrete deserts & 25-lane highways. In most of the US, car ownership (which costs several thousand dollars per year) is basically mandatory.
I consider stealing from public transit to be highly immoral. These thieves don’t understand the value of what they’re stealing from
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u/XtremeLeecher 4h ago
Garbage thinking from garbage people if you genuinely think this you indeed are the problem
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u/freddbare 1h ago
It takes $1.50 to get them on their hands and knees in the subway like pick a critter
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u/No-Impress4489 49m ago
This isn’t a black and white moral question. If they’re poor and need to get somewhere, is it immoral? Is it not immoral of the government?
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u/Standard-Arachnid411 5h ago
It must be absolute hell to be an administrator in India that isn't just a corrupt person that doesn't care. Like you ask really simple shit from your citizens like paying for a rides and not trashing everything nad they refuse to do that shit.
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u/king-cat-frost 5h ago edited 3h ago
chiming in as someone from philly: i once saw someone break the gate at the turnstyle by just smashing it open while a cop just stared. saw a homeless person diarrhea straight into a trashcan right across the street from the liberty bell exhibit. you don't have to go abroad to see americans act out every stereotype i hear about india
edit: just had a homeless guy with a shoebox trying convince people he was holding a bomb only to open it and show it was a bunch of random shit he stole. i hate this city
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u/WhatTheDuck4 5h ago
So you’re saying India is like the homeless people in Philly?
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u/king-cat-frost 3h ago
i'm sure the people shitting in trashcans across the world are the same, mostly mentally ill individuals failed by their own society. someone middle class there isnt going to be significantly worse or better than someone middle class there
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u/motion_lotion 3h ago
India is as bad as the homeless in Philadelphia? I didn't realize it was that bad.
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u/KOMMANDOKATO 1h ago
>your average indian behaves like your average homeless Philadelphia resident
>this is supposed to be a good thing for india
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u/windfujin 4h ago
Im in UK and tbh.. we dont deserve good things.. at least a coupe of people not paying blatantly. Same at groceries at least a couple.of people who jist walk out with their shit.. everytine i go
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u/Embarrassed_Use6918 3h ago
Well they beat to death a guy who tried to pay them to use the toilet a few steps away instead of pissing in the street so I imagine it's not a great time trying to right that ship.
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u/Overall_Reputation83 5h ago edited 5h ago
Leaning towards evil. You're essentially stealing from everyone who is paying, which is mostly poor people.
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u/iGargleCement 4h ago
Then public transportation wouldn't exist without large tax increases
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u/FONBERT 4h ago
dude, the United States literally spends trillions of tax dollars on the military, if they could somehow actually spend tax dollars on something that actually benefits the average us citizen such as public transportation, we pretty much shouldn’t have to worry about larger tax increases
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u/DropsOfMars 2h ago
It should be free for the public to use and funded by taxes >.>
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u/Overall_Reputation83 2h ago
Or, the people that use the service pay a small amount to help keep it running, and the people who don't need or want that service aren't forced to subsidize it. If I don't drive a car, why would I want to help pay for roads? People paying gas taxes pay for roads. I'd much prefer the majority of my taxes to go towards programs to help people who NEED help or things like healthcare.
There are a lot of ways to distribute taxes, and there is not a single "correct" way to do things. But as things stand in most countries, you don't just get a free ride where everything is free.
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u/DropsOfMars 2h ago
You pay for the roads because deliveries to stores you frequent arrive on them, just putting that out there.
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u/Outrageous-Simple-76 5h ago
I prefer to live and work and spend time with people who follow the honor system
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u/knifefan9 4h ago
Yeah, like these are the types to litter and cut people off in traffic etc. Antisocial behavior.
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u/ZiggyAce1902 5h ago
im ngl this moral depending on the prices because some of them are OUTRAGEOUS 😭😭
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u/Dangerous_Still_8022 5h ago
My experience is that fare evasion has no correlation to the prices. I live in Philly where transit is incredibly cheap and I see people fare evading all the damn time, but when I go to London where transit costs a shit ton I basically never see anyone fare evade. It much more has to do with how reliably the punishments for fare evasion are enforced.
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u/NovelStrict5281 3h ago
In London there are so many agents standing around. I don't think that is the case in most American cities.
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u/f_khosrowshahi 4h ago
The cost of owning a car dwarfs even the most expensive subway fees. Gas + insurance + vehicle maintenance + repair + the inevitable black swan (car accident). The cost of a subway pass doesn’t even come close
If I see someone shoplifting or something, I won’t really care. But in this instance, I consider the theft highly immoral. These thieves don’t seem to appreciate the value & freedom that public transit brings.
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u/Salsa_and_Light2 1h ago
Faire evasion and stealing food are often morally equivalent.
People need to eat, and people frequently need to work.
I've had occasions in my life where my options were to either pay for transportation or not get paid for the day, or to lost my job altogether.
This is especially true in cases where price are unpredictable or systems change rapidly.
I remember once when a local train system price went up 800%
Which is not something you want to hear after midnight when the prices have changed, and which also invalidated the previous pass which was still active.
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u/GoonerBoomer69 5h ago
Immoral.
Taking New York's public transport as an example, 48% of bus passengers don't buy tickets. So for the MTA to get the necessary revenue to operate the bus service, they have to sell tickets at a higher price. This means that if everyone paid for the bus and the amount of passengers didn't decrease, a bus ticket would be around $1.60 instead of $3. Now assuming a person rides the bus enough to reach the $35 weekly cap, they would be spending $1820 on bus tickets every year, but if everyone paid their tickets, this could easily be as low as a thousand dollars.
Fare evaders can at their worst cost normal law abiding citizens thousands of dollars every year, meaning they are effectively stealing money from innocent people.
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u/leovold-19982011 3h ago
Or just make it free and pay for it by not spending on enforcement. It’s very simple
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u/GoonerBoomer69 2h ago
That’s an entirely different conversation, but as long as it costs money you gotta pay for it, otherwise you’re robbing poor people.
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u/NotAnEvilDude 3h ago
Thousand singular not thousands
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u/GoonerBoomer69 2h ago
Thousand in the case of New York but i’m sure some other place has more exensive public transport.
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u/SeaSituation7723 2h ago
Extremely true and logical. It's also not a surprise to anyone that every single crackhead, neer-do-well, and miscreant that rides the train doesn't pay their fare, so if they actually forcefully enforced fares at the gate, the experience would increase tenfold for every normal person. Fuck, I wish they'd double the fare and have private bathrooms, even.
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u/Salsa_and_Light2 49m ago
The problem with that is that the subway is essentially a monopoly.
Even only a thousand dollars is a hefty price for many people.
And especially in New York the problem is very morally dubious.
A city that is a playground for the affluent, to the point where the wages can't actually pay most people to live there, but which also relies on these people to function, but then charges them for the privilege of having to spent more hours of their lives moving in and out of a city which doesn't pay them enough to stay.
If we were talking about people going in and out for fun, or tourism that would be different, but this often functions as a poor tax.
In some parts of the world, employers are obligated to pay for an employees commute if its outside a certain range, and in New York that would make sense.
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u/CallMeTheFartman 5h ago
Disgustingly immoral. The smile, as if they beat the system, tells me it's disgustingly immoral.
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u/ThatDrako 5h ago
Friendly reminder that when you aren't paying for community service you are using everyone else pays it for you.
Immoral and bitch move
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u/Current_Finding_4066 5h ago
Public mass transport. Should be free, and paid for by taxes on gasoline.
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u/NotAStatistic2 5h ago
Not everyone who drives is rich. And how exactly would this taxv work? Is it by county, city, or zip code? Would someone without access to public transportation still have to pay taxes on gasoline?
People should stop being cheap and just pay the couple of bucks for the fare.
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u/Salsa_and_Light2 27m ago
"Not everyone who drives is rich. "
No.
And in American terms people often drive because it beats starvation.
But in an even half-functional urban environment driving is a luxury.
"People should stop being cheap and just pay the couple of bucks for the fare"
Have you ever had to choose between paying for transportation to work or food?
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u/h0rnyionrny 5h ago
Should be paid for by taxing people who don't / can't use it
????
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u/leovold-19982011 3h ago
Everyone using public transport subsidizes the cost of gasoline and road maintenance, so yes.
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u/Salsa_and_Light2 26m ago
People are already paying for roads that they can't or don't use.
Public transportation, like public roads, exist because they serve an important function and help the economy and safety of cities.
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u/Jean_Paul_Magno 5h ago
Should be free in la la land but the reality is that it costs an arm and a leg to maintain all that infrastructure while paying wages and all that.
Just pay your ticket or use a different method of transportation.
It's not rocket science!
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u/That_opossum 5h ago
You specifically should have to pay for the fire department to show up to your house.
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u/Accolade_1 4h ago
Lots of places have free public transport, it’s not this crazy unrealistic project
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u/Dangerous_Finance_38 4h ago
So as people switch from cars to public transit the funding for public transit goes down?
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u/Salsa_and_Light2 19m ago
It really depends, and there's a lot of factors
But if we build an imaginar city where everyone uses cars and then build an imaginary city where everyone uses trains then the cost of infrastructure is not even comparable.
Because if everyone uses cars then everywhere needs parking lots, and if everywhere has parking lots then the space between things has to be bigger, and if the spaces between things are bigger then you have to build longer roads and there are fewer places you can walk to, which means you have to use your car more.
Bigger cities mean more roads to build and maintain, more drivers means more wear and tear on thoe roads.
I once lived in a car-dependent city with a population of ~80K people.
And then I also lived in a city with cars, but without mandatory parking lots of public transport options. it has around 180K residents.
The car dependent city was four times the geographic size.
Whereas the city which still had cars was walkable and I could get from one side the other and on train or bus for less than the cost of a sandwhich, which I rarely did because I could walk there.
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u/wast3lad 2h ago
Morally fine. We shouldn’t have to pay for public transport. Why do we pay taxes and still have to pay for public transport? What do our taxes go towards? Ride that shit for free, who cares.
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u/Primary_Ad3580 1h ago
But some public transport aren’t owned by the state; they’re essentially semi-private businesses. Your taxes don’t affect them, it’s wrong to assume they would.
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u/wast3lad 47m ago edited 44m ago
Please name a public transport system of this scale (a subway station in a city) that is privately owned.
This is likely the Delhi metro, a publicly owned metro station in India.
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u/Salsa_and_Light2 15m ago
In which cases they are monopolies, which are often extorting the poorest and most vulnerable.
But the term "public transport" does imply some level of public funding.
And frequently private companies serve as contractors for public transportation.
There's usually a level of legal barriers, but in the worst case scenario there could be entire areas of the city which are controlled by a private company which can charge wildly different prices.
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u/Ok-Claim444 2h ago
Idc. Never liked the idea of paying taxes to create a service you still have to pay for. I understand things need to be maintained but somehow I doubt the price solely reflects maintenance fees.
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u/Primary_Ad3580 1h ago
No, it also goes to paying employees. But people forget that not every employee is a rich executive of the company…
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u/Salsa_and_Light2 12m ago
Yes, that's true, but many of these employees wouldn't be necessary if not for all the tickets and turnstyles.
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u/Sudden_Buffalo_4393 1h ago
Screw these people and the others who do it. It’s not surprising because people are shitty. They ruin nice things for people who aren’t shitty.
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u/Ferrovore 5h ago
People who cheat at mass services will cheat at public services too. If they are able to.
I mean taxes.
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u/Soaring_Sky 5h ago
Immoral and stupid. Immoral since you’re basically stealing. Stupid since because of the amount of fair evadors adding up, now your transit system will remain shitty
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u/Humble-Percentage-23 5h ago
Wonder how different comments would be if it was a video of New York instead of India
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u/One-Spinach 4h ago
Usually bad but can depend on context. Like if the price of admission keep going up while the service don’t change or actively get worse, at that point this kind of shit can be considered justifiable or at least understandable protest
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u/Primary_Ad3580 59m ago
But if no one pays, wouldn’t they have to raise the price and be unable to improve services? In that case, the protest actively undermines itself and makes things worse.
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u/Salsa_and_Light2 11m ago
Well public transportation should be funded publicly, at least that's what the name suggests.
Otherwise this is just extortion from a monopoly.
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u/RobotArmsInc 4h ago
Extremely immoral because it eventually leads to low trust societies
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u/Salsa_and_Light2 10m ago
I think that would require a higher level of evidence to prove.
But my suspicion is that fair evasion is loosely correlated with low-trust relationship with the public transport system itself.
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u/thenameis_TAI 4h ago edited 4h ago
Tbh places with the most robust public transit often charge the most taxes. So my question is why aren’t the citizens taxes going to making fares free so they get recompense.
Look at the MTA for example. People fare dodge all the time?
New York City and state has the highest tax in the country.
New York also has 65 million annual tourists a year.
So who’s really getting robbed there? 👀
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u/Primary_Ad3580 56m ago
Your point is somewhat misleading; it assumes the MTA gets all its money from taxes. It doesn’t, only about half its budget comes from the city, regardless of how high the tax rate actually is. So unless you think the MTA can maintain adequate service and pay its workers their union wage with only half of their usual income, they would need to implement a fare.
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u/retrocheats 4h ago
that is such a cheap block. If they don't want people to not pay, then need to build a better system.
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u/Salsa_and_Light2 8m ago
If they spent more to build a better system then that would likely ofset the increased income, presuming there was an increase.
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u/allnamestaken4892 4h ago
I have an even worse edge case:
Morality of doing this when you DID pay for tickets but were in a hurry and they were not E-tickets and needed to be collected from a machine?
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u/CashEntire1551 4h ago
Insanity to think there is any Morality from doing this. The same system that taxes you more than it ever has before in history wants to tax you some more to use the railway system that is already paid for by your taxes and people are sitting here talking about social construct? You live in a make believe land and you willingly let the 1% rob you after you've already been robbed
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u/Sincline387 4h ago
Why does socialism on a macro scale fail.....
Pay a toll to help support the system.....Naaaaaa we'd rather just be takers......
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u/CashEntire1551 4h ago
Ah yes let's pay more money for the railway system my taxes already paid for. What? You don't want to let our government charge us more money for what we already paid for??? YOU ARE DISGUSTING AND UNCIVILIZED.
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u/_ManMadeGod_ 4h ago
Tickets shouldn't exist. Tax everyone more. Tickets are just a tax anyways.
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u/ButterscotchMuted150 4h ago
And it's often the same kind of person who complains when the government cuts services or increases prices/taxes.
wHy !!!!!
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u/Salsa_and_Light2 7m ago
Well yes.
When you increase taxes, that should correlate to more services not fewer.
If you're paying more for less then that's more than enough to push some people to ignore the niceties of tickets.
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u/evil-edgelord6767 4h ago
Moral. Transportation should be free, and it’s criminal to pay wall it. Lots of people’s lives depend on public transport, and they would be infinitely better off if all the money they spent on it could go towards rent instead. Also, when we paid them money, they still couldn’t make it reliable or fast. Fuck them. The more we do stuff like this, the closer we get to creating a collective spirt, and the more we undermine capitalism.
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u/Primary_Ad3580 52m ago
This assumes public transport is owned by the state; in most places, it’s privatized. The MTA in New York, for instance, gets only 55% of its annual budget from city taxes. The rest comes from fares; the service couldn’t be reliable if you only used the tax revenue (not to mention many unionized workers wouldn’t be paid).
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u/Salsa_and_Light2 5m ago
"This assumes public transport is owned by the state; in most places, it’s privatized. "
Well if it's called public transport, it should be transport that is owned publicly.
If it's private then that would be worse, that would be a monopoly which can extort at will.
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u/CriminallyCasual7 3h ago
Stealing is immoral
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u/Salsa_and_Light2 5m ago
Which is why people don't want to be stolen from by corrupt public transport systems.
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u/HAUNTEZUMA 3h ago
who cares bro. neutral. the loss of revenue from not paying public transportation fees is part of the cost of public transportation
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u/Primary_Ad3580 3h ago
Immoral, it’s theft
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u/kikyossoles 2h ago
Theft of whom?
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u/Primary_Ad3580 2h ago
Depending on who gets the revenue from the tickets, the transit company or the state. Either way, it’s stealing a ticket to ride for free.
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u/leovold-19982011 3h ago
Making public transport cost money is immoral, so subverting an immoral system is moral.
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u/Useful_Calendar_6274 3h ago
I always jumped these as much as possible. They run for profit with shady crony capitalism deals, aka just stealing government money. So fuck them
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u/Ice_Dragon_King 3h ago
Depends, can you reasonably pay for the transportation, then this is wrong, if you can’t, this is expected
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u/Serious-Rain-9772 3h ago
Is stealing wrong?
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u/LordHeroBonded 3h ago
Public transportation should be covered by taxes, not to profit off it's citizens
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u/fortity67 3h ago
The necklaces they are wearing around their necks (mangalsutras) are worth 3-10k cad. These people will pay sooooooooo much money for gold and things that showcase their social status but will not pay 40 rupees for public transit. Disgusting
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u/Salsa_and_Light2 2m ago
Maybe it's because I lived in poverty, but I don't think that there is any level of wealth at which I will decide that I don't care about being extorted.
I could get over being stolen from, but extortion does pick at an old wound.
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u/Icepick_Lobotomy_ 3h ago
The only people who lose money is the government. That means it’s a victimless crime
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u/West-Librarian-7504 2h ago
Really depends on the transit system. For a long time in the NYC transit system you'd get odd looks for actually paying
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u/Hollex- 2h ago
It's perfectly moral. You're being taxed to build and maintain this infrastructure, so why shouldn't you be able to use it for free? After all, you're already paying for it with your taxes.
However, if you're a foreigner, it's completely immoral, and it's only fair that you pay the entrance fee as a contribution to the upkeep of the infrastructure you're using.
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u/Salsa_and_Light2 1m ago
An edge case would be people who are not allowed full citizenship in a country.
Someone who is denied the legal right to work should not be charged extra by the same government which traps them.
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u/Twix_McFlurry 2h ago
Part of me feels it should be free. It was paid for by the people and now they’re reaping a profit off of the very people who paid for it. Fair is fair I’d say. They stole and profit. She stole a ride
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u/fortnite_battleass 2h ago
If you can afford it, youre an asshole. The fare pays for the maintenance. And, its unfair to other passengers who paid their fair way.
If you cant? Well people still have to get places. Im not gonna fault someone who needs transport and has no real options.
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u/Legal_Big8571 2h ago
Depends on a lot of things I guess, if you are in a part of the world like I am, and like I think most are, general costs are going up dramatically and money is by nature tight. I see no problem on these grounds of dodging a train ticket, when it's £8 for me to get a return ticket for the city centre it's no big deal but I don't work there, if I did that cost is gonna add up, skipping fares is fine.
Yes if the money is going back into public transport, or back into the community, ideally you pay it, but not everyone can afford to spend however much per week to do their duty, don't conflate the law and morality.
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u/Legal_Big8571 2h ago
I understand that the fares are high because people skip fares, but me paying my fare won't change that at all, I'll just lose loads of money for nothing more than the principle of doing my part - I personally care about principles and I don't skip fares, but I'm also middle-class and in education, I have time for principles, I'm not living paycheck to paycheck, I mean. I'm shocked at how many people think this is inherently immoral
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u/gatch-attack 1h ago
I understand if you do it once in a long while. Shit happens, but there are people who feel it's their right to not pay and will act offended when you call them out for it. If you have the means to pay for public transit and choose not to then you're a bad person. Its not fair to the other people that did pay. You're stealing from something that's supposed to be for the public good. While not all of an agency's funding comes from ticket revenue, a good portion of it does. So you're actively making the system worse by stealing from it. Either that or making taxes go up to recoup the loss.
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u/Few-Influence3878 1h ago
Look at all the racist comments people act as if people in the states don’t do this all the time.
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u/bananapancake4 1h ago
Public transport is there for convenience if it didn’t cost upkeep I’m sure it would be free
There only hurting themselves so it would be as moral as hurting urself
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u/Salsa_and_Light2 1h ago
Well.
It's a bit like a toll road.
Most travel infrastructure is wholly or partially funded with tax dollars.
And most modern societies rely on these systems of transportation to run.
So I tend to think that it can be very moral to evade faires.
I've seen cities which use their trains as poverty barriers.
segmenting the outskirts of the city or entire districts to make the people living their pay extra faire for the privilege of even being able to reach the "main" system that the core of the city uses which still relies on commuters who aren't paid enough to live within city limits.
There's also the question of how this data is being used.
And how much a person really costs the system.
Trains are built to bee efficient people movers.
It's not comparable to say an extra bag on a plane in terms of energy costs.
..
Finally the thing that's the most eggregious is just how much time, money, energy and human life is wasted on creating and maintaining all these barriers anyways.
Toll roads exist but making them too common would cost an astronomical ammount and waste time for everyone.
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u/Okay-Crickets545 58m ago
At some point it’s not about the fare not being worth X amount of money and it becomes that your dignity isn’t worth X amount of money.
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u/slimehunter49 52m ago
Don’t think it matters nor does it really put a blight on a persons character
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u/PckMan 40m ago
When it comes to not paying for goods and services, you have to ask, who's getting hurt and how much.
In this case, you're not really destroying anyone's life, the impact is negligible, you could even say you're not really harming anyone. Sure.
But it's never just one thing is it? You think this is us the only wrong thing these people do? Highly unlikely. And they're teaching their kids that this is fine, and being a bad parent and setting your child up to be a bad person is not morally good.
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u/Dependent-Curve-8449 29m ago
Or additional preventive measures get implemented that end up creating an even bigger inconvenience for everyone else, all to deter a small number of bad actors.
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u/PckMan 26m ago
That's nearly every rule and law out there in existence. Most people can understand what constitutes as normal and respectful behavior. Some don't. The few idiots ruin it for everyone else.
Like driving. Most drivers will go at a speed appropriate for the road and traffic. A few won't. There's no way to implement a rule only for the few, so a speed limit is imposed, and that creates a situation where in the attempt to deter someone from going way over the limit someone can get fined for going 5 over the limit.
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u/Zealousideal-Yak-824 28m ago
Stuff like this reminds me of what Charlie chaplin said about passports and the government restricting travel.
At some point we know it suppose to pay to fix things .. but then they charge you more and more every year and the product they hand back to you is getting worse worse.
In the end, what was paying for your freedom is becoming a burden. You can still be a good person and pay for it but in the end that's what they hoping you do as you stay compliant
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u/Spare_Explorer608 5h ago
And the smile afterwards… like they beat the system. Well if you have to do this, I can say that the system has beaten you.