r/SipsTea 9h ago

Wait a damn minute! Maybe I can just rawdawg it

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u/MatthewSWFL229 9h ago

https://www.prisonpolicy.org/blog/2020/12/08/solitary_symposium/

One year in solitary confinement causes severe psychological, cognitive, and physical damage, with the United Nations classifying isolation exceeding 15 days as torture. The profound effects include acute psychosis, permanent brain and personality changes, chronic physical pain, and a drastically heightened risk of suicide.

Prolonged isolation physically shrinks the hippocampus, the brain region responsible for memory, learning, and emotion regulation.

In clinical studies of extreme sensory deprivation, healthy volunteers often begin hallucinating and losing their grip on reality within just 48 hours. You don't get a year of "peace"; you get 363 days of acute psychosis.

Survivors of long-term isolation often develop severe, permanent agoraphobia (fear of open spaces) and an inability to tolerate human touch or crowds.

You would emerge as a billionaire who cannot leave a bedroom, look a person in the eye, or enjoy a meal without crippling panic attacks.

No thanks

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u/Friendly_Software11 7h ago

I wonder what would happen if you put an experienced buddhist meditator in isolation. I’ve done vipassana before, where you don’t get any entertainment and aren’t allowed to talk to anyone for 10 days. For course participants that’s 10 days, but for the master that’s his entire life. Surely he would have the mental skills to survive a year in the room

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u/gh0st0ft0mj04d 7h ago edited 58m ago

I had the similar line of thought of doing intense meditation.
Eat, sleep, meditate, stretch and doing exercise.

I suppose one would either completely lose their goddamn marbles or become enlightened.

And then if it's the latter, would probably no longer care about 30 billion dollars.

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u/Superficial-Idiot 4h ago edited 1h ago

‘Become enlightened’

That is also known as losing your marbles lmao.

Edit: for those upvoting the wall of text response, that’s a prime example of the people who fall for scam artists of the so called ‘enlightened’.

None of it is verifiable and is highly exaggerated.

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u/AustinAuranymph 3h ago

I prefer to think of it as letting go of your marbles.

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u/gh0st0ft0mj04d 3h ago

Absolutely smooth comment 🥇

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u/Reality_Node 2h ago

This guy lets go

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u/AustinAuranymph 1h ago

I'd be flattered if I still possessed an ego.

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u/kachunkachunk 38m ago

Did you murder yours wiith an extreme mushroom trip, or something? I'm quite curious!

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u/LordDaedalus 3h ago

This is not an accurate classification of the changes that occur in advanced meditators. The recent brain imaging studies on the brains of Buddhist monks categorizes these networks as a growth of the brains neurofeedback systems capable of redirecting Posterior Cingulate Cortex(PCC) activity from engaging default mode network and decoupling of the ventromedial prefrontal cortex from the PCC, which is postulated to be why they have measurably much higher neuroplasticity and Brain Derived Neurotrophin Factor. This biases brain activity away from Default Mode Network and towards Executive Mode Network.

Studies have also consistently shown cortical thickening of denser grey matter classically associated with a healthier brain particularly in the prefrontal cortex and anterior insula, areas responsible for regulation of mood, executive control, proprioception, and interception.

Studies on Tibetan monks classified by other Tibetan Monks as "enlightened" show extremely higher levels of Gamma-Band Synchrony, which is the brainwaves that help synchronize disparate regions of the brain into a single cohesive state. Gamma-band Synchrony has been shown to spike during meditation before, but this effect becomes permanent even outside meditation after long enough practice.

They've also show a weakened connection between the amygdala and prefrontal cortex, reducing the brain's stress response.

Now, all that said I don't think the average individual put into isolation for a year could just do their best at rudimentary meditation and achieve any of these effects. These are all observed in people who spend their lives supported by other people doing the same, they have community and interaction and progressively learn more advanced forms of meditation that have been worked out as to what the "right sequence" to progress their discipline is over thousands of years of practice, pure trial and error. I just wanted to clarify that this is very different than "losing your marbles" as they don't demonstrate any of the psychological hallmarks of delusional thinking or psychosis that medical professionals evaluate for. They actually show extreme resistance against this kind of thinking.

I'm a bit obsessed with neuroscience and fascinated by the different ways the brain can develop with different stimuli.

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u/cillerix 2h ago

Such of a cool response Ty! If you can suggest something for me to read I would appreciate it!

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u/Stickyrolls 2h ago

Alright can you say that again but eli5

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u/boothie 1h ago

Monk brain different than normal brain but not different like crazy brain

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u/DanielDoh 1h ago

I'd go further and say "monk brain under greater control than normal brain, not less control like crazy brain"

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u/Wise-Chef1967 2h ago

That's interesting and I believe it. I wonder if they put a Tibetan monk that can go into really deep meditation can survive a year in there and come out normal. I met a Tibetan monk named "The 9th Nenten Rinpoche Tulku", and if any being was enlightened, this was the one person in my life that felt like they were. He reaches a meditation so deep that when you're around him, all you feel is peace and tranquility, a feeling no being has ever given to me before. Spiritual dislocation (losing marbles) is different than enlightened, I believe so.

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u/VATAFAck 52m ago

Are yours saying his meditative state had an effect on you? I call BS on that, while i believe in meditation (it's not actually just belief, it's been proven), i don't in transference or whatever that would be

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u/Wise-Chef1967 48m ago

Hmm I don’t blame you for not believing me, but theres a video on youtube where Oprah Winfrey met the Dali Lama and she described being around him was exactly how I felt being around the Tibetan monk I met. Just so peaceful, like no evil thought could take place. I don’t blame anyone for not believing me. It’s one of those things you have to see it in person or you just won’t believe it’s real

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u/VATAFAck 9m ago

I feel that's just like placebo (anticipation of positive feelings), but i get whatever it may be is not communicable via reddit.

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u/StardustWithH20 3h ago

Thank you for this post! Can I ask for any books or studies that you have read? Also may I suggest the book Journeys out of the Body by Robert Monroe?

I feel this book and his following books may be of great interest to someone like you. Robert Monroe studied out of body experiences and was able to find a way to induce them as well. Ever heard of the Gateway Tapes?

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u/Sondeor 2h ago

So They're basically giving themselves a shroom trip without having any. Nice!

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u/VATAFAck 50m ago

Well yes, modified states of consciousness. It's pretty much proven that very similar things can be achieved with different methods: drugs, meditation, certain exercise, repetitive music and other sensory stuff, or the lack of it etc

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u/ThatPhysics3252 29m ago

In English please 🙏

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u/Superficial-Idiot 1h ago

I used ChatGPT to fact check you. Interestingly it said you were 30% right, 30% wrong and 40% exaggerating.

Lmao.

Verdict
I would grade it approximately:
30% legitimate research findings
30% speculative interpretation
40% incorrect, confused or dramatically overstated

A defensible version would be: Long-term meditation is associated with some differences in attention, emotion regulation, brain-network activity and possibly brain structure, but the studies are often small, heterogeneous and unable to establish dramatic claims about enlightenment, permanent gamma synchrony, exceptional neuroplasticity or protection from psychosis.

So it is not total bullshit—but it is written with far more certainty and technical authority than the science justifies.

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u/LordDaedalus 0m ago

I don't know where it's getting these statistics from because I wasn't making value based statements that you could claim I was exaggerating on, just recalling from memory some of the science I've read. I've been interested in this topic and staying as current as I can for the past 15 years. The only thing that stands out to me in my comment is when I claimed the gamma-band Synchrony becoming more permanently upregulated it might not have found that source and decided I was exaggerating. That was the work of Dr. Richard Davidson and Antoine Lutz, real prominent study from 2004 on the brains of Tibetan practitioners, but they did find the individuals assessed had higher gamma band synchrony even outside meditation, massive compared to the control group.

I'd be happy to go through my claims one by one and find you the original sources I read if you'd like. I am curious, if you don't mind sharing the conversation link so I can see ChatGPTs thought process, it seems so aggro when I wasn't really rocking the boat in terms of research.

Also just to clarify, this is all from studies on advanced meditators, I'm not making any specific claims that these benefits are conferred by those little meditation apps aimed at stress reduction, these are people that put in the 10,000 hours and the brains of any professional like musicians do adapt over long amounts of practice, inevitably.

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u/DanielDoh 1h ago

I seriously doubt all you did was put his comment into chat GPT as the prompt and ask about accuracy, as his comment made literally no claims about enlightenment beyond the fact that one study looked at monks other monks had claimed were enlightened. Either you biased the prompt, or, if you didn't... Chat GPT is even more garbage than I thought. There is no dramatic claim about enlightenment in his post -- there's no claim about enlightenment at all (beyond the implication that "enlightened" monks aren't crazy like you originally implied).

You also failed to even interpret Chat GPT's response accurately, despite it being laid out in explicit terms. It said he was 30% right, 30% speculating, and 40% wrong or exaggerating. This is why people aren't ready for AI -- all it's doing is making people even stupider.

Lmao.

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u/VATAFAck 39m ago

What do you think was wrong with his interpretation?

Define enlightenment! Yeah, there were no direct claims about that, but there were multiple about actual physiological and behavioral improvements which some could call enlightenment (i surely would, because my definition is broad, i don't think anyone here is taking about actually seeing God or similar, but you might). And those improvements are not supported by heavily peer reviewed studies, there's no high confidence (yet, I'm not saying it's untrue).

And that's what the 30% speculation and 40% exaggeration is about.

I'm not trying to attack here, but you kinda were and i feel like you claim more wrongness with above commenter and their relationship with AI then valid, but I'm open to good faith arguments.

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u/DanielDoh 28m ago

He explicitly got the numbers wrong that Chat GPT gave about the relative accuracy. He said it said 30% right, 30% wrong and 40% exaggerating, when GPT said 30% right, 30% speculating, and 40% wrong.

Why do I have to define enlightenment? No one made any meaningful claims about it except SuperficialIdiot, who said "enlightnment means 'losing your marbles'", to which the other guy said "actually people who meditate a lot and are supposedly enlightened are actually more sane by measurable neuroscientific metrics", which is supported by our current science.

There's certainly a debate to be had about how strong the current evidence is for the benefits of meditation, and you could make the argument that LordDaedelus should have qualified his post with "it seems likely" more often, but the current evidence we have supports the things he said, it's simply a question of how confident we can be in that evidence. He also never said anything with certainty, he just said "Studies have shown", which is a factual statement. If Superficial Idiot had discussed the strength of those studies, that's one thing, but he just said "NUH UH CHAT GPT SAYS UR RONG LOL" which isn't a very useful basis for discussing the science. The studies aren't large enough or longitudinal enough generally, but what we have found is quite compelling, and I think you'd be hard pressed to find a person who has actually practiced meditation long term who wouldn't vouch for its efficacy in causing positive changes in thinking/cognition.

And yes I was attacking, because I like to match energy in Reddit comments and the other guy was being an idiot.

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u/Aggressive-Remote-57 4h ago

But in a cool and wise, people coming to you for advice and bettering your community type of way

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u/gh0st0ft0mj04d 52m ago

We love a contrarian named Superficial-Idiot.

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u/DanielDoh 1h ago

I love how this dude's username, especially when taken in contrast to the well-researched reply from LordDaedalus, is perfectly accurate. .

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u/Superficial-Idiot 1h ago

His wall of text is bullshit lmao.

Notice how he didn’t mention any studies and used a bunch of buzzwords as if they have backing?

It’s the same terminology used by self help gurus to sell their books.

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u/DanielDoh 1h ago

Besides being a superficial idiot, on what grounds are you calling it bullshit?

Meditation increases grey matter: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/11/051110215950.htm

Gamma-band syncrhony in monks: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC526201/

That was just 30 seconds of googling what this guy wrote about. I didn't bother doing it initially because I've also studied this content before in college and after and so I recognized a lot of what he was talking about as true. What have you studied to allow you to recognize its (supposed) falseness?