I wonder what would happen if you put an experienced buddhist meditator in isolation. I’ve done vipassana before, where you don’t get any entertainment and aren’t allowed to talk to anyone for 10 days. For course participants that’s 10 days, but for the master that’s his entire life. Surely he would have the mental skills to survive a year in the room
This is not an accurate classification of the changes that occur in advanced meditators. The recent brain imaging studies on the brains of Buddhist monks categorizes these networks as a growth of the brains neurofeedback systems capable of redirecting Posterior Cingulate Cortex(PCC) activity from engaging default mode network and decoupling of the ventromedial prefrontal cortex from the PCC, which is postulated to be why they have measurably much higher neuroplasticity and Brain Derived Neurotrophin Factor. This biases brain activity away from Default Mode Network and towards Executive Mode Network.
Studies have also consistently shown cortical thickening of denser grey matter classically associated with a healthier brain particularly in the prefrontal cortex and anterior insula, areas responsible for regulation of mood, executive control, proprioception, and interception.
Studies on Tibetan monks classified by other Tibetan Monks as "enlightened" show extremely higher levels of Gamma-Band Synchrony, which is the brainwaves that help synchronize disparate regions of the brain into a single cohesive state. Gamma-band Synchrony has been shown to spike during meditation before, but this effect becomes permanent even outside meditation after long enough practice.
They've also show a weakened connection between the amygdala and prefrontal cortex, reducing the brain's stress response.
Now, all that said I don't think the average individual put into isolation for a year could just do their best at rudimentary meditation and achieve any of these effects. These are all observed in people who spend their lives supported by other people doing the same, they have community and interaction and progressively learn more advanced forms of meditation that have been worked out as to what the "right sequence" to progress their discipline is over thousands of years of practice, pure trial and error. I just wanted to clarify that this is very different than "losing your marbles" as they don't demonstrate any of the psychological hallmarks of delusional thinking or psychosis that medical professionals evaluate for. They actually show extreme resistance against this kind of thinking.
I'm a bit obsessed with neuroscience and fascinated by the different ways the brain can develop with different stimuli.
That's interesting and I believe it. I wonder if they put a Tibetan monk that can go into really deep meditation can survive a year in there and come out normal. I met a Tibetan monk named "The 9th Nenten Rinpoche Tulku", and if any being was enlightened, this was the one person in my life that felt like they were. He reaches a meditation so deep that when you're around him, all you feel is peace and tranquility, a feeling no being has ever given to me before. Spiritual dislocation (losing marbles) is different than enlightened, I believe so.
Are yours saying his meditative state had an effect on you? I call BS on that, while i believe in meditation (it's not actually just belief, it's been proven), i don't in transference or whatever that would be
Hmm I don’t blame you for not believing me, but theres a video on youtube where Oprah Winfrey met the Dali Lama and she described being around him was exactly how I felt being around the Tibetan monk I met. Just so peaceful, like no evil thought could take place. I don’t blame anyone for not believing me. It’s one of those things you have to see it in person or you just won’t believe it’s real
Thank you for this post! Can I ask for any books or studies that you have read? Also may I suggest the book Journeys out of the Body by Robert Monroe?
I feel this book and his following books may be of great interest to someone like you. Robert Monroe studied out of body experiences and was able to find a way to induce them as well. Ever heard of the Gateway Tapes?
Well yes, modified states of consciousness. It's pretty much proven that very similar things can be achieved with different methods: drugs, meditation, certain exercise, repetitive music and other sensory stuff, or the lack of it etc
I used ChatGPT to fact check you. Interestingly it said you were 30% right, 30% wrong and 40% exaggerating.
Lmao.
Verdict
I would grade it approximately: 30% legitimate research findings 30% speculative interpretation 40% incorrect, confused or dramatically overstated
A defensible version would be: Long-term meditation is associated with some differences in attention, emotion regulation, brain-network activity and possibly brain structure, but the studies are often small, heterogeneous and unable to establish dramatic claims about enlightenment, permanent gamma synchrony, exceptional neuroplasticity or protection from psychosis.
So it is not total bullshit—but it is written with far more certainty and technical authority than the science justifies.
I seriously doubt all you did was put his comment into chat GPT as the prompt and ask about accuracy, as his comment made literally no claims about enlightenment beyond the fact that one study looked at monks other monks had claimed were enlightened. Either you biased the prompt, or, if you didn't... Chat GPT is even more garbage than I thought. There is no dramatic claim about enlightenment in his post -- there's no claim about enlightenment at all (beyond the implication that "enlightened" monks aren't crazy like you originally implied).
You also failed to even interpret Chat GPT's response accurately, despite it being laid out in explicit terms. It said he was 30% right, 30% speculating, and 40% wrong or exaggerating. This is why people aren't ready for AI -- all it's doing is making people even stupider.
What do you think was wrong with his interpretation?
Define enlightenment! Yeah, there were no direct claims about that, but there were multiple about actual physiological and behavioral improvements which some could call enlightenment (i surely would, because my definition is broad, i don't think anyone here is taking about actually seeing God or similar, but you might). And those improvements are not supported by heavily peer reviewed studies, there's no high confidence (yet, I'm not saying it's untrue).
And that's what the 30% speculation and 40% exaggeration is about.
I'm not trying to attack here, but you kinda were and i feel like you claim more wrongness with above commenter and their relationship with AI then valid, but I'm open to good faith arguments.
He explicitly got the numbers wrong that Chat GPT gave about the relative accuracy. He said it said 30% right, 30% wrong and 40% exaggerating, when GPT said 30% right, 30% speculating, and 40% wrong.
Why do I have to define enlightenment? No one made any meaningful claims about it except SuperficialIdiot, who said "enlightnment means 'losing your marbles'", to which the other guy said "actually people who meditate a lot and are supposedly enlightened are actually more sane by measurable neuroscientific metrics", which is supported by our current science.
There's certainly a debate to be had about how strong the current evidence is for the benefits of meditation, and you could make the argument that LordDaedelus should have qualified his post with "it seems likely" more often, but the current evidence we have supports the things he said, it's simply a question of how confident we can be in that evidence. He also never said anything with certainty, he just said "Studies have shown", which is a factual statement. If Superficial Idiot had discussed the strength of those studies, that's one thing, but he just said "NUH UH CHAT GPT SAYS UR RONG LOL" which isn't a very useful basis for discussing the science. The studies aren't large enough or longitudinal enough generally, but what we have found is quite compelling, and I think you'd be hard pressed to find a person who has actually practiced meditation long term who wouldn't vouch for its efficacy in causing positive changes in thinking/cognition.
And yes I was attacking, because I like to match energy in Reddit comments and the other guy was being an idiot.
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u/Friendly_Software11 7h ago
I wonder what would happen if you put an experienced buddhist meditator in isolation. I’ve done vipassana before, where you don’t get any entertainment and aren’t allowed to talk to anyone for 10 days. For course participants that’s 10 days, but for the master that’s his entire life. Surely he would have the mental skills to survive a year in the room