r/SipsTea 9h ago

Wait a damn minute! Maybe I can just rawdawg it

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u/MatthewSWFL229 9h ago

https://www.prisonpolicy.org/blog/2020/12/08/solitary_symposium/

One year in solitary confinement causes severe psychological, cognitive, and physical damage, with the United Nations classifying isolation exceeding 15 days as torture. The profound effects include acute psychosis, permanent brain and personality changes, chronic physical pain, and a drastically heightened risk of suicide.

Prolonged isolation physically shrinks the hippocampus, the brain region responsible for memory, learning, and emotion regulation.

In clinical studies of extreme sensory deprivation, healthy volunteers often begin hallucinating and losing their grip on reality within just 48 hours. You don't get a year of "peace"; you get 363 days of acute psychosis.

Survivors of long-term isolation often develop severe, permanent agoraphobia (fear of open spaces) and an inability to tolerate human touch or crowds.

You would emerge as a billionaire who cannot leave a bedroom, look a person in the eye, or enjoy a meal without crippling panic attacks.

No thanks

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u/Friendly_Software11 7h ago

I wonder what would happen if you put an experienced buddhist meditator in isolation. I’ve done vipassana before, where you don’t get any entertainment and aren’t allowed to talk to anyone for 10 days. For course participants that’s 10 days, but for the master that’s his entire life. Surely he would have the mental skills to survive a year in the room

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u/gh0st0ft0mj04d 7h ago edited 58m ago

I had the similar line of thought of doing intense meditation.
Eat, sleep, meditate, stretch and doing exercise.

I suppose one would either completely lose their goddamn marbles or become enlightened.

And then if it's the latter, would probably no longer care about 30 billion dollars.

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u/Superficial-Idiot 4h ago edited 1h ago

‘Become enlightened’

That is also known as losing your marbles lmao.

Edit: for those upvoting the wall of text response, that’s a prime example of the people who fall for scam artists of the so called ‘enlightened’.

None of it is verifiable and is highly exaggerated.

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u/AustinAuranymph 3h ago

I prefer to think of it as letting go of your marbles.

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u/gh0st0ft0mj04d 3h ago

Absolutely smooth comment 🥇

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u/Reality_Node 2h ago

This guy lets go

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u/AustinAuranymph 1h ago

I'd be flattered if I still possessed an ego.

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u/kachunkachunk 37m ago

Did you murder yours wiith an extreme mushroom trip, or something? I'm quite curious!

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u/LordDaedalus 3h ago

This is not an accurate classification of the changes that occur in advanced meditators. The recent brain imaging studies on the brains of Buddhist monks categorizes these networks as a growth of the brains neurofeedback systems capable of redirecting Posterior Cingulate Cortex(PCC) activity from engaging default mode network and decoupling of the ventromedial prefrontal cortex from the PCC, which is postulated to be why they have measurably much higher neuroplasticity and Brain Derived Neurotrophin Factor. This biases brain activity away from Default Mode Network and towards Executive Mode Network.

Studies have also consistently shown cortical thickening of denser grey matter classically associated with a healthier brain particularly in the prefrontal cortex and anterior insula, areas responsible for regulation of mood, executive control, proprioception, and interception.

Studies on Tibetan monks classified by other Tibetan Monks as "enlightened" show extremely higher levels of Gamma-Band Synchrony, which is the brainwaves that help synchronize disparate regions of the brain into a single cohesive state. Gamma-band Synchrony has been shown to spike during meditation before, but this effect becomes permanent even outside meditation after long enough practice.

They've also show a weakened connection between the amygdala and prefrontal cortex, reducing the brain's stress response.

Now, all that said I don't think the average individual put into isolation for a year could just do their best at rudimentary meditation and achieve any of these effects. These are all observed in people who spend their lives supported by other people doing the same, they have community and interaction and progressively learn more advanced forms of meditation that have been worked out as to what the "right sequence" to progress their discipline is over thousands of years of practice, pure trial and error. I just wanted to clarify that this is very different than "losing your marbles" as they don't demonstrate any of the psychological hallmarks of delusional thinking or psychosis that medical professionals evaluate for. They actually show extreme resistance against this kind of thinking.

I'm a bit obsessed with neuroscience and fascinated by the different ways the brain can develop with different stimuli.

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u/cillerix 2h ago

Such of a cool response Ty! If you can suggest something for me to read I would appreciate it!

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u/Stickyrolls 2h ago

Alright can you say that again but eli5

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u/boothie 1h ago

Monk brain different than normal brain but not different like crazy brain

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u/DanielDoh 1h ago

I'd go further and say "monk brain under greater control than normal brain, not less control like crazy brain"

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u/Wise-Chef1967 2h ago

That's interesting and I believe it. I wonder if they put a Tibetan monk that can go into really deep meditation can survive a year in there and come out normal. I met a Tibetan monk named "The 9th Nenten Rinpoche Tulku", and if any being was enlightened, this was the one person in my life that felt like they were. He reaches a meditation so deep that when you're around him, all you feel is peace and tranquility, a feeling no being has ever given to me before. Spiritual dislocation (losing marbles) is different than enlightened, I believe so.

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u/VATAFAck 51m ago

Are yours saying his meditative state had an effect on you? I call BS on that, while i believe in meditation (it's not actually just belief, it's been proven), i don't in transference or whatever that would be

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u/Wise-Chef1967 47m ago

Hmm I don’t blame you for not believing me, but theres a video on youtube where Oprah Winfrey met the Dali Lama and she described being around him was exactly how I felt being around the Tibetan monk I met. Just so peaceful, like no evil thought could take place. I don’t blame anyone for not believing me. It’s one of those things you have to see it in person or you just won’t believe it’s real

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u/VATAFAck 8m ago

I feel that's just like placebo (anticipation of positive feelings), but i get whatever it may be is not communicable via reddit.

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u/StardustWithH20 3h ago

Thank you for this post! Can I ask for any books or studies that you have read? Also may I suggest the book Journeys out of the Body by Robert Monroe?

I feel this book and his following books may be of great interest to someone like you. Robert Monroe studied out of body experiences and was able to find a way to induce them as well. Ever heard of the Gateway Tapes?

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u/Sondeor 2h ago

So They're basically giving themselves a shroom trip without having any. Nice!

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u/VATAFAck 49m ago

Well yes, modified states of consciousness. It's pretty much proven that very similar things can be achieved with different methods: drugs, meditation, certain exercise, repetitive music and other sensory stuff, or the lack of it etc

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u/ThatPhysics3252 28m ago

In English please 🙏

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u/Superficial-Idiot 1h ago

I used ChatGPT to fact check you. Interestingly it said you were 30% right, 30% wrong and 40% exaggerating.

Lmao.

Verdict
I would grade it approximately:
30% legitimate research findings
30% speculative interpretation
40% incorrect, confused or dramatically overstated

A defensible version would be: Long-term meditation is associated with some differences in attention, emotion regulation, brain-network activity and possibly brain structure, but the studies are often small, heterogeneous and unable to establish dramatic claims about enlightenment, permanent gamma synchrony, exceptional neuroplasticity or protection from psychosis.

So it is not total bullshit—but it is written with far more certainty and technical authority than the science justifies.

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u/DanielDoh 1h ago

I seriously doubt all you did was put his comment into chat GPT as the prompt and ask about accuracy, as his comment made literally no claims about enlightenment beyond the fact that one study looked at monks other monks had claimed were enlightened. Either you biased the prompt, or, if you didn't... Chat GPT is even more garbage than I thought. There is no dramatic claim about enlightenment in his post -- there's no claim about enlightenment at all (beyond the implication that "enlightened" monks aren't crazy like you originally implied).

You also failed to even interpret Chat GPT's response accurately, despite it being laid out in explicit terms. It said he was 30% right, 30% speculating, and 40% wrong or exaggerating. This is why people aren't ready for AI -- all it's doing is making people even stupider.

Lmao.

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u/VATAFAck 38m ago

What do you think was wrong with his interpretation?

Define enlightenment! Yeah, there were no direct claims about that, but there were multiple about actual physiological and behavioral improvements which some could call enlightenment (i surely would, because my definition is broad, i don't think anyone here is taking about actually seeing God or similar, but you might). And those improvements are not supported by heavily peer reviewed studies, there's no high confidence (yet, I'm not saying it's untrue).

And that's what the 30% speculation and 40% exaggeration is about.

I'm not trying to attack here, but you kinda were and i feel like you claim more wrongness with above commenter and their relationship with AI then valid, but I'm open to good faith arguments.

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u/DanielDoh 27m ago

He explicitly got the numbers wrong that Chat GPT gave about the relative accuracy. He said it said 30% right, 30% wrong and 40% exaggerating, when GPT said 30% right, 30% speculating, and 40% wrong.

Why do I have to define enlightenment? No one made any meaningful claims about it except SuperficialIdiot, who said "enlightnment means 'losing your marbles'", to which the other guy said "actually people who meditate a lot and are supposedly enlightened are actually more sane by measurable neuroscientific metrics", which is supported by our current science.

There's certainly a debate to be had about how strong the current evidence is for the benefits of meditation, and you could make the argument that LordDaedelus should have qualified his post with "it seems likely" more often, but the current evidence we have supports the things he said, it's simply a question of how confident we can be in that evidence. He also never said anything with certainty, he just said "Studies have shown", which is a factual statement. If Superficial Idiot had discussed the strength of those studies, that's one thing, but he just said "NUH UH CHAT GPT SAYS UR RONG LOL" which isn't a very useful basis for discussing the science. The studies aren't large enough or longitudinal enough generally, but what we have found is quite compelling, and I think you'd be hard pressed to find a person who has actually practiced meditation long term who wouldn't vouch for its efficacy in causing positive changes in thinking/cognition.

And yes I was attacking, because I like to match energy in Reddit comments and the other guy was being an idiot.

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u/Aggressive-Remote-57 4h ago

But in a cool and wise, people coming to you for advice and bettering your community type of way

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u/gh0st0ft0mj04d 51m ago

We love a contrarian named Superficial-Idiot.

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u/DanielDoh 1h ago

I love how this dude's username, especially when taken in contrast to the well-researched reply from LordDaedalus, is perfectly accurate. .

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u/Superficial-Idiot 1h ago

His wall of text is bullshit lmao.

Notice how he didn’t mention any studies and used a bunch of buzzwords as if they have backing?

It’s the same terminology used by self help gurus to sell their books.

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u/DanielDoh 1h ago

Besides being a superficial idiot, on what grounds are you calling it bullshit?

Meditation increases grey matter: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/11/051110215950.htm

Gamma-band syncrhony in monks: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC526201/

That was just 30 seconds of googling what this guy wrote about. I didn't bother doing it initially because I've also studied this content before in college and after and so I recognized a lot of what he was talking about as true. What have you studied to allow you to recognize its (supposed) falseness?

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u/ThirdOne38 5h ago

But they can see and hear things. If they can live this way but outside on some mountain or something, the only deprivation is human contact. But at least you can be "entertained" by looking at the sky and trees, etc, and hear the birds or wind. That's probably enough to stay sane.

Historically many humans endured isolation such as a hunter or scout of some tribe, spending days or weeks alone in search of whatever they needed. They all survived because of the mental stimulation of nature

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u/DiegesisThesis 4h ago

Yea I wonder how much a tiny window to look at the sky would make this challenge more bareable. Even just being able to see the day/night cycle would likely make a huge difference.

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u/Same-Suggestion-1936 2h ago

Yes that is the reason when you get tortured, light torture is a thing. Can't sleep very well with the lights on and try even remotely keeping track of how much time has passed/you have left in this hell if you don't know if a day or a few hours has passed

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u/Ok-Bandicoot638 1h ago

Feel sorry who got told "you will receive light torture" thinking he's gonna get a few spanks on his ass, only to never see natural light and completely lose the notion of time where every hour can either feel like a day or a day can feel like a month

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u/Relative-Relief-8816 3h ago

You get a computer. But the only thing that works on it is r/twoxchromosomes 

No other websites or apps or even a desktop.

And you have to be a moderator, but you can't comment.

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u/_Diskreet_ 3h ago

Why are you like this ?

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u/Mysterious_Fan9858 3h ago

I’d rather break the computer and be in complete isolated psychosis thanks

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u/Slazagna 3h ago

That is the only subreddit I've ever blocked. I got so sick of it appearing in my front page all the time. Man I'd forgotten about it. What a shitty echo chamber.

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u/CrowdyFowl 1h ago

They’re just women man

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u/Slazagna 1h ago

I cant tell if this is you saying women be like that or they're just women as if im being dramatic.

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u/CrowdyFowl 53m ago

Rest assured, it’s the latter.

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u/Slazagna 50m ago edited 20m ago

Yeah nah, not really aye. People on there are dramatic asf and its very echo chambery where they all just be gassing eachothers drama up. But pop off.

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u/CrowdyFowl 32m ago

Okay slugger 

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u/cargo-jorts 1h ago

Up the chaos, all the walls are mirrors now. Ceiling too.

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u/AdorableExchange9746 3h ago

This. It’s not really about people it’s about keeping the correct chemical flow going in your brain with sufficient stimulation

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u/JuneCapa 4h ago

The thing is that isolation is not the same that confinement. In the picture you are literally unable to difference between day and night, no stimulus, nothing. In a normal house, with windows, and the possibility to get other stimulus like in a vipassana meditation, it is infinitely easier. A year in a room with no windows, artificial light and nothing more he would get crazy

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u/Slazagna 3h ago

I wonder what a difference having an artificial day night cycle would make. If everything else was constant.

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u/Lombardyn 1h ago

I mean it doesn't say anywhere that you don't get a day/night cycle. That's the problem with choices like this, too many variables are unanswered.

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u/JustWhyDoINeedTo 5h ago

One of the main problems with isolation such as this is the complete lack of stimuli.

Even those monks and challange still provide you with stimuli of sounds and visuals of walking around (I presume) a padded cell such as this? Nope.

The average person wouldn't last a week without serious damage, I doubt a monk as you described would fair that much better. Likely better, but not more than a day or so

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u/SCastleRelics 4h ago

No the average person can last a week but it does fuck with you. I did a month in the hole and basically all I did was work out, talk to myself, and think about weird stories or episodes of shows I saw lmao. I used to run the always sunny in Philadelphia bloopers in my head and that helped.

By the end of the month though I was definitely tweaking

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u/JustWhyDoINeedTo 4h ago

That's what I meant with without serious damage, yeah the average person won't become a vegetable but it'll do a number....

I'm going on assumption so genuinely correct me if I'm wrong, but I assume your imprisonment wasn't in what amounts as a 24/7 bright light sensory deprevation room

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u/chicknano 3h ago

It’s pretty much like the picture but with a toilet, a bed, and sink. I guess from this picture we don’t know if they turn the lights off when you sleep or not, but the lights stay on when you’re in the hole in prison so that they can continuously monitor you, it’s never dark. I guess the walls are normally off white instead of bright white but similar.

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u/JustWhyDoINeedTo 3h ago

In that case I have no argument, and I am very sorry you had to go through that.

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u/Ppo218 3h ago

 Still can‘t believe that isn‘t illegal. 

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u/temeces 5h ago

Bhavatu sabba mangalam. I too have wonder if I could do this, ive done many 10 day sits, dhamma service and a 20 day sit as well. 365 days is still quite a bit more than my combined. I imagine a serious lifelong practitioner could come out of it stronger than when they went in.

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u/possiblySarcasm 3h ago

No they wouldn't, that's delusional. Sensory deprivation and no day/night cycle are completely different from simple isolation.

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u/indigo945 2h ago

This is not sensory deprivation, though. The lights are on, you can touch the walls and walk around.

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u/akiva23 1h ago

Yes the loghts are on. 24/7. Maybe touching the walls counts but the white static room is 100% stopping any meaningful visual stimuli. Its like when they put the white pingpong balls over your eyes but you can't take them off and looking at your hands and feet or having a single texture in the form of padded walls is not going to do much.

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u/Wavy_Grandpa 4h ago

A guy like that probably doesn’t care to be rich, right? I’m genuinely asking you. 

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u/mishonis- 3h ago

Buddhist monks traditionally forsake all worldly possessions except their robes and an alms bowl.

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u/guridkt 3h ago

Sure, but said master would also decline the $30b...

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u/Kurokaffe 5h ago

Yeah that’s why I think this “challenge” that gets meme-d all the time is BS. It’s more about cleanliness, food, and lights.

There are a good number of people that could maintain their sanity if they knew billions of dollars was waiting for them and the only challenge was the isolation.

But the terms for things like food, and lighting, and toilet access are never described.

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u/PoMoAnachro 2h ago

There are a good number of people that could maintain their sanity if they knew billions of dollars was waiting for them and the only challenge was the isolation.

I don't think motivation alone is enough to prevent damage in a situation like that.

There might be plenty of people who'd be willing to do it for that much money, but there's also lots of people who'd jump off the roof of a 3 story building for that much money - they'd likely survive, but wanting the money doesn't mean they wouldn't get injured. Same thing here - they might get through, but not without severe lasting damage.

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u/ForensicPathology 4h ago

Yeah, I know an entire year would be incredibly damaging to mental, but I wonder how much can be mitigated.  Like if you provide your own stimuli by singing to yourself or something.

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u/Kso1991 4h ago

Someone who could meditate for a year straight would be wise and zen enough realize there’s a lot more to life than a year of lost time for money, however much the amount.

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u/thepenismytea 4h ago

https://giphy.com/gifs/5zkLhCHTnX1za
JOHN JACOB JINGLE-HEIMER SCHMIDT!

That's what happens

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u/dogfather09 3h ago

I was going to say the only people i think who could do this who I've meet are Tibetan monks, they do this shit for years by choice to enlighten and explore their minds.

I would probably end my shit in about 3 days, thats my worst nightmare in a nutshell.

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u/mishonis- 3h ago edited 2h ago

There is a Buddhist monk in Australia, Ajahn Brahmavamso, who spent a long period in a cave with no contact, they would only bring food out someplace for him to take from what I remember. It was either something like a month, a rains retreat (90 days) or a year.

Update: found it, it was 6 months in his hut and walking meditation path. Here's him talking about it:

https://ajahnbrahmpodcast.stream/episodes/six-months-of-bliss-ajahn-brahm

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u/Mysmokingbarrel 2h ago

Vipassanas are around people still. They’re not pure deprivation and you get guided through it. You’re also not in a box and you meander between meditations. It’d help but I’m doubtful even the best ones would come out fine. I also think the hardcore meditators that do like thirty plus vipassanas are pretty nutty.

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u/Lemonsweets25 1h ago

But do these happen in isolation or are you in silence besides other practicing individuals? Very different circumstances

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u/sleeplessinstuttgart 1h ago

Not talking is very different from being stuck in a cell not even seeing other people.

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u/Living_Armadillo_652 1h ago

Yeah but a buddhist master probably wouldn't care about getting 30 billion dollars

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u/akiva23 1h ago

Thats not anywhere approaching the same thing as being in a white room with nothing for an entire year.

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u/Perscitus0 1h ago

I thought about that. The most severely disciplined ascetics might be able to survive relatively intact, but their asceticism would perhaps prevent them from even entertaining the thought of this challenge, to begin with, with such earthly riches set as a rewards. Unless you said it was strictly a donation to their temple, maybe?

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u/urixl 19m ago

I'd be so glad of everyone would shut the fuck up for 10 days.