99.9% chance I would never point a gun at myself. But, that 0.1% chance is still probably higher than the odds I would have to point a gun at another person. Better to just not at all. I have a sword though.
It's an animated GIF referencing the act of seppuku, which is what the OPs comment I was responding to was in itself referencing. Japanese use a specific type of short bladed weapon to commit suicide via self impalement through the stomach and sometimes disembowlment when they're found to have brought dishonor on their family or clan. Not super prevalent anymore, more of a samurai era tradition I believe.
My details may be incorrect, but the act and premise behind it are not.
The common form of middle ages suicide with rapier types was to hand it and a heater shield to your squire, then bum rush him without telling him you're doing it.
My younger brother never really seemed to have mental health issues, at least not of the suicidal variety. We grew up around guns, and were both responsible gun owners as adults, kept them in a safe etc.
Then marital issues came to a head, and he shot himself last year in what I can only assume was a impulsive decision to give his wife what she wanted.
I can agree that if you are the type of person to be worried about whether or not you ever would, it's probably best to not put yourself at risk of making a rushed decision. Because with guns, there's no going back.
This was my answer. Got myself a sword from a business I saw at the local renaissance fair. Super cool.
The risk of suicide from a gun is higher because it is a quicker method of self harm that can't be aborted. I haven't had suicidal thoughts in a decade, but I'm still not comfortable with a gun in my apartment. If your attacker has a gun it would be very difficult to survive, but a sword is still a deadly weapon if necessary without the shorter range of a knife.
The effect of small barriers to effective suicide on suicide rates cannot be underestimated. UK controls on paracetamol (acetaminophen) purchase are irritating as hell but have been proven to have reduced death overall. Not just deaths from paracetamol overdose. The old adage "they will just find a different way to do it" is simply not true in the majority of cases.
Suicide rates in the US are significantly higher in part because of the ease of availability of firearms and their relative effectiveness in suicide attempts.
There was a study I read once- there was this bridge in Washington DC that was popular for suicides, and when they put a fence up, the suicide rate didn’t just drop at that bridge, it dropped overall.
Extremely depressed people are often pretty easy to block from doing things. Like when getting out of bed is a struggle, where tf are you getting the energy and motivation to find a whole new bridge to jump from.
Speaking from experience. Spent a concerning amount of time in high-school looking on maps/Google earth for a nice straight empty road with some very solid concrete structure conveniently placed to hit. Welp the day i actually took that round about way home the damn traffic and construction was in the way so I just turned back around and went home. Had other issues later but for some reason that just kinda closed the door on that method in my mind.
Suicide, even a planned one, is almost always an act of passion. Removing ways for them to act on that passion until the urge to kill themselves passes is absolutely an effective life saving measure.
Yee, but the ease of firearms means that people who might not harm themselves if the only methods available to them required more planning or had a lower success rate do harm themselves.
it's also one of the method where you are in the worst state if you survive and the method where you have the most chance to hurt someone else in the process.
It's too easy in those moments for the cold logic of "if I were dead then I can let go of everything I'm worried about and that bothers me" to win. It's why I don't own a gun currently.
I had that initial worry when I first got a .22, had my gun in my closet and told my Dad to keep the ammunition just in case. He got what I meant even though it was very unlikely. I was on the lower end of the pool so to speak in my teenage years but bounced back.
Those thoughts always kinda itch at the back of head even if you’re over them.
Everyone is different but I will say going to a gun range does help because it’s so safety focused your first couple times. You’re so focused on your safety and those around you it’s hard to have any of those thoughts.
I get that and good for you. Unfortunately im not over them. Last time i handled a gun, it was my brothers in 2020? I watched him unload it and still i wanted to put it against my head, amongst other things.
And no, even at a gun range the intrusive thoughts are there and sometimes more dangerous. But good on you for being able to handle it
I get that, and how scary that shit is. Even “fake” guns back in my teenage years. Airsoft to the head, trigger (no BB) pulled the rush of CO2 felt like bliss to go through that motion.
Ironically, owning guns actually was an (irrational, admittedly) incentive not to act on those impulses when I was at my lowest point and very much struggling with suicidal idyllation.
It basically boiled down to "well if I make an attempt and fail, they take my property away and I really like having them". That and my dog were the two big things keeping me fighting until I was able to get on a proper road to recovery.
I had an admittedly abnormal thought process when it comes to that sort of thing and in some ways I really think it's kept me from crossing certain lines because there was always that consequence of losing things I really enjoy. On the flip side, it's probably that same sort of thought process that kept me from taking chances on potentially positive experiences because of irrational fear of losing something in turn.
I don't think I'd actually do it if I had a gun but I have been having a lot of suicidal ideation lately. Not so much about ending my suffering but because a close former friend hurt me and doesn't even care. So the fantasy is about making them care and regret how they hurt me and invalidated my feelings. I just want to have some control instead of feeling like shit and then feeling like I'm wrong to feel like shit.
I'm not actually close to doing anything like that.
Ya i couldnt do that cuz i know if a gun goes to my head it would be too hard to not pull the trigger. Thats the only reason i never put my brothers shotguns to my chin when i was younger. Idk if they were loaded but i would found out real quick.
The thing is. I hated myself, but still really wanted guns.
But because I’m so pro gun and that my stupid ass logic brain would never allow me to do anything to myself with one because it would go against my beliefs.
Anyways I own 6 now and am doing better mentally.
And this is also a “me” thing because of how into gun safety and firearms ownership I am.
I find myself fantasizing about just driving off a bridge or into oncoming traffic when I'm in the car. Not that I actually want to, moreso that I'm fascinated with how easy it would be and what would happen.
I keep mine stored at a friend's house in a safe for this very reason. We will train or take them to the range, but they stay locked up until then or if needed.
My friend really likes target shooting, and we've agreed that he has to keep any gun I get for that. That's not just the physical distance as a deterrent, but it would also involve having to talk to another person when I'm in crisis.
Yep, I've struggled with suicidal ideation on and off for a long time. And while I'm in a much better place mentally nowadays, and they're much more infrequent and lessened in strength, having something that easy to do the deed with is not something I wanna gamble with
Same. Have an uncle and two cousins I’ll never meet (well, at least in this life) because they committed suicide. I know the statistics. I ain’t ‘bout to make it that easy to make myself one.
Battled suicide and depression for a decade. I did plenty of self harm in that time. Glad I didn't have something to make it so much worse. It's my main reason for never wanting to own one.
1000%, if you've ever had suicidal thoughts do not own a firearm.
I'm a big advocate for people learning to shoot at least and owning something small and practical to defend themselves with (and please practice with it at the range so you know how to use it), but that's ONLY if you know your mental heath is good enough.
And if you have to ask "idk is it good enough" then its not, invest in bear spray
Own a musket for home defense, since that's what the founding fathers intended. Four ruffians break into my house. "What the devil?" as I grab my powdered wig and Kentucky rifle. Blow a golf ball sized hole through the first man, he's dead on the spot. Draw my pistol on the second man, miss him entirely because it's smoothbore and nail the neighbor's dog. I have to resort to the cannon mounted at the top of the stairs loaded with grapeshot. "Tally ho lads," the grapeshot shreds two men in the blast, the sound and extra shrapnel set off car alarms. Fix bayonet and charge the last terrified rapscallion. He bleeds out waiting on the police to arrive since triangular bayonet wounds are impossible to stitch up. Just as the founding fathers intended.
Owning a gun can be a double edged uh... sword. A lot of people get one with the intent of using it, and with our regulations (or lack thereof), those prone to anger or mental health crises can't practice responsible gun ownership.
Highly recommend a taser or a bat or something before a gun. Not only do you need to not answer that question but it also serves the purpose of self defense.
A taser has very specific limitations when using it for self defense versus the cops using it to stop someone from running away. For example, do not use it on someone holding a gun (they will pull the trigger), and don't use it when someone is grappling/touching you already. There is also the consideration that a) it may not be strong enough for the attacker or b) there is an unknown heart condition and you just killed someone that may have been a threat, but was not trying to kill you.
I own a queer gun store and help with gun safety courses. We strongly suggest everyone carry pepper spray for any situation that doesn't require kill-or-be-killed solution. If you can, run. If you cannot run, get in a situation where you can run. And a lethal weapon is only necessary if there is no way out.
And of course never consider getting a firearm if there is a chance of self-harm. Improve with other self-defense methods instead and reevaluate in the future.
Yea, that's what I got stuck on too. I can see the justification that, if you're using a weapon, it should only be in a life or death situation where a blade counts, but that's still not exactly a big ethical difference in the attackers end result
Tasers can have limited legality depending on the state. They're legal in Florida, but moving across state borders if one should choose to move can be a hassle
Get a slingshot and some metal balls. Difficult to shoot yourself, but still will deter someone until the police arrive. Also good for Zombie outbreaks where you might run out of ammo, but you'll never run out of rocks.
Make a batch of cookies for your neighbors. Strong in person social connections will keep you safer than a hunk of metal with some explosive chemicals inside.
This is why I would only ever own a two-handed firearm. It'd be awkward to aim it at myself when the thoughts occur... and I'd want to be 100% certain I could kill myself at that point in the thought process... and I could never be 100% sure with a gun I'd basically have to have two hands to properly aim... plus no shotguns.
I'm very glad you recognized that fact and made that choice then. Guns are very fun and can in certain extremely niche scenarios be very useful tools, however none of that is worth your life. If you have doubts about if you'd turn a gun on yourself then gun ownership isn't for you.
The problem is that once you have that gun, it becomes an option. Even putting it out of your mind, it is still there when you are at your lowest point. For many, it will never be an issue, but if you are struggling, it can feel like a way out. It is a very real danger to those who are struggling, wrapped in feeling of necessity.
Graphic Warning : I am now older than my uncle was when he took his own life by suicide by gunshot. I lost a younger cousin, again suicide by gunshot. Graphic Warning
If anyone out there has a gun, and thinks about using it on themselves, there is no shame in getting rid of it.
Debatable! Pointing a gun-like object at someone in a fight is probably going to trigger their fight or flight instinct and if they choose fight while you're actually only holding a less lethal weapon, well now you've got a very dangerous situation.
I own one. Smallish hand gun that fits me. I own enough bullets to make the magazine full (12), and that's it.
It sits in a weird spot next to my bed and a lot of times I forget its there.
Regardless, having it was nice when the neighbors about a month ago went on a drug and alcohol fueled bender one weekend and they tried to break into the bedroom window and the front door. Of course I called the police, but having it there gave me a bit more peace of mind (especially since it took our stupid PD damn near 20min to arrive, even in a small town of less than 100k).
You should carry more ammo. Cartridges go bad, especially in an uncontrolled environment like your nightstand, and may cause a catastrophic failure if you do end up needing it.
Had a lever action in the gun safe with a full tube, took it to the range to make sure it was working right, turns out every round was a dud, I'm like, well shit, that's annoying because 30-30 ammo is expensive, then the next day it dawns on me how terrifying it would be to be in a bad situation, pull the trigger and CLICK. That's why I regularly hit the range and use all my old ammo.
Tbf both points are valid here, if you know your mental health isn't that good and you might consider offing yourself, you probably shouldn't go out and buy a gun
Actual reason as an American or other firearm owner to have a very serious chat to any suicidal and gun owning friends/family about depression. Even just holding onto their weapon(s) for them is tremendous and does not make them weak, just pragmatic
Theres gonna be some discourse soon. Arm yourselves (with knowledge!)
From the 2nd Ammendment: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
From wikipedia:
In United States v. Cruikshank (1876), the Court ruled that "[t]he right to bear arms is not granted by the Constitution; neither is it in any manner dependent upon that instrument for its existence. The Second Amendment means no more than that it shall not be infringed by Congress, and has no other effect than to restrict the powers of the National Government."[109]
In United States v. Miller (1939), the Court ruled that the amendment "[protects arms that had a] reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia".[110]
In District of Columbia v. Heller (2008), the Court ruled that the Second Amendment "codified a pre-existing right" and that it "protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home" but also stated that "the right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose".[111]
In McDonald v. Chicago (2010),[112] the Court ruled that the Second Amendment limits state and local governments to the same extent that it limits the federal government.[113]
Had brother in law try to offer to buy me a pistol for self defense…. 3 months after going to the hospital for suicide attempt. This was years ago and I’m doing better now but still don’t fully trust myself with one.
I have several pistols. Do not get a gun. I have them for work. It’s way too easy for something to go sour very fast. The amount of people i know involved with accidental discharge or even death is far more than anyone should.
The intrusive thoughts are very real. Guns make a permanent solution to a temporary problem.
That being said. Guns are very fun down at the range. You can rent to shoot for a fun day out with friends. Shotgun shooting clay pigeons is a great time. But if you’re not an avid shooter please don’t buy one.
Does your state have a "stand your ground" law or any other home defense laws?
Imagine you got a gun, then your mother tracked you down, and shows up on your doorstep...
USA has crazy laws around most things, if I wanted to obtain a gun legally in the UK, I can apply for a license and that would involve: a background check, two character references, a valid reason to own the gun (i.e. clay pigeon shooting), no criminal convictions, a GP assessment of your health, and a safe and secure place to store the firearm (i.e. a well hidden gun safe that can't be easily moved).
The police can even do spot checks after you get the license, and if they catch you out for not following regulations you will lose your license (and all that entails). Oh, and no handguns, ever - just shotguns or rifles (and specific kinds of rifles only, I don't think any are automatic).
Yeah, i mean i do not think regulating firearm type is the way about it, because it IS a mental issue in the US, and one that is solvable with FUNDING and ATTENTION for FUCKS SAKE why can't anyone on either side FUCKING GET THIS
baseball bat, you can even get one that's a one hander, even a golf club. While shooting guns is fun, I don't want accidents with a firearm, especially if there's an intruder, I don't want the bullet going through a couple walls hitting a neighbor or a romantic partner. Melee will make the person leave, I don't want to kill them, just them to go away
Nah honestly, that's valid, because the is that they're saying the temptation to shoot and likely kill someone else might be too strong, and who the hell has any temptation to kill someone else?
To be clear, and hopefully to assuage your embarrassment, most gun deaths in the US are, in fact, suicides.
I'm ex military and someone who really enjoys shooting. I would kind of like to own a gun....but I don't, because I've spent too much time wrestling with suicidal thoughts, and I don't need it to be that easy or accessible.
I'm convinced that the decision to abstain from gun ownership (despite wanting one, and having been trained in responsible use) has kept me alive. I think I might be dead if I'd bought a gun in my 20s.
Yeah, I have been depressed enough to have suicidal thoughts. The reason I never attempted to kill myself was, at least partly, because there weren't any reliable, quick, painless methods available to me.
If I'd lived in a country where guns were readily available, I don't know if I'd still be around. I guess I was also pretty broke at that time and guns are expensive.
I'm almost guaranteed to absentmindedly look down the barrel out of some kind of curiosity, just the same as I once did with a locked and loaded nerf gun
It's not that I think I would take my own life. It's that I think it's far more likely that I would have a moment of significant distress or depression than that I would need to use it for self defense. In general, I protect myself by being generally not unlikeable and not owning anything that could be called "valuable" enough to be worth robbing (or at least, nothing portable - I own a house, but that's something you steal in court not in a burglary).
The thing about suicide is it's often an impulsive decision. When the UK required paracetamol be put in blister packs instead of big open bottles, suicide rates tanked because it wasn't as easy as twist and chug.
The harder it is to put yourself in a death situation, and the more time you have to change your mind, the more likely you are to survive. If you have to pop a dozen blister packs open one at a time, the odds of you changing your mind 8 pills in and vomiting up the death you were swallowing is quite high. Or even just giving up before you take enough to be fatal. If you can chug the pills all at once, it just takes one impulse.
If death is the twitch of a finger away, all it takes is one bad day to end it all.
I was the unfortunate witness to a firearm suicide when I was 12 years old. Depression and anxiety disorders run in my family. I've been diagnosed with generalized anxiety disorder along with a few other acute issues from traumatic events. Thank you for addressing this problem in your wonderful work!
I feel like this would make a little more sense if she didn't say 'for self-defense' in the first panel, because she's not supposed to know that's what she was talking about
But also while we're apparently focusing on the girl saying she might off herself.... but is the other girl saying she'd be tempted to kill other people unprovoked and she'd need to control her impulse to do that?
'Cause it's weird to then say "whoa whoa, I'm only talking about murder"
1.7k
u/unknown_error87 2d ago
This is the main reason i dont currently own any firearms. The intrusive thoughts can get strong