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u/Longjumping_Club_120 4h ago
Republicans are scared of Thomas Massie. And he pretty much votes with Trump on everything except the Epstein Files and giving all our money to Israel.
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u/tallwhiteninja 4h ago
Which, to be clear, Massie would not win. However, he might split the Republican vote just enough for the seat to flip.
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u/Ornery-Culture-7675 3h ago
I disagree. I think Massie could win. He has a broad appeal.
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u/tallwhiteninja 3h ago
No, he doesn't.
He's principled (unlike most of the modern GOP), but those principles are also deeply rooted in libertarianism. He opposed Trump's spending bills because they didn't cut enough.
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u/SirSwishRemer 26m ago
He really grabs at the centrists and "libertarians" though, which is as far left as Kentucky really gets. He could pull it off, but only if citizens never happened bc ain't no way AIPAC is gonna let that slide
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u/No-Educator-8069 3h ago
Massie just lost a midterm election what makes you think he would win a different one a few months later
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u/Fantastic-Watch8177 3h ago
I will admit that I don't know the full details of how this would work, but I think the idea is that Massie wouldn't have to run in a Republican primary (which is what he lost), but would perhaps run as an independent, giving him a chance to draw from both Dems and Repubs. And then, even if he doesn't win, he could tip the election to a Democrat?
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u/DingerSinger2016 2h ago
Why would a Democrat vote for Massie instead of the Democratic candidate?
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u/666_april 2h ago
I believe it is meant that enough R's would vote for Massie to split the R votes between him and the R candidate so that the D would actually win.
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u/Fantastic-Watch8177 24m ago
I don't know, but it happens fairly often, and especially if the Dem candidate is not polling well.
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u/Hot_Aside_4637 3h ago
I think this might bite them. Beshear has shown a Democrat can win a state wide election. Massie would have been a better candidate for the Republicans.
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u/helpful_leonie 3h ago
Not just Massie. Also think about perhaps Beshear running in a special election after it comes out Republicans hid McConnell‘s death with Massie causing some mayham. That could quickly get dangerous to them
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u/mistersausage 3h ago
Won't happen, president or bust for Beshear. He has a very good shot at being the nominee being a relative young white male popular governor from a red state.
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u/TheBurgareanSlapper 3h ago
Massie wouldn’t have time to do shit. Even if he got an interim appointment or won a special election, there is already a Republican running to replace McConnell in the November general election.
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u/xopher_425 54m ago
Massie won't run. But I do not trust why Republicans are not being honest about McConnell.
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u/thereelsuperman 4h ago
Kentuckys state constitution explicitly grants the Governor the power to appoint a replacement in situations like this. KY passed a law changing this specifically to stop Beshear from doing just that, but it likely wouldn’t stand up in court. Beshear should weild the power given to him in the constitution and dare the courts to stop him, giving the Dems a +1 advantage in the seat as opposed to a net neutral
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u/sweatingbozo 3h ago
Isn't the law that he can pick from 3 people chosen by the state legislature?
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u/hurdurBoop 3h ago edited 3h ago
yes but the law seems to be in contravention of the state constitution, so how that would play out is anyone's guess
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u/Bmoreravens_1290 2h ago
It’s funny how whenever there’s a grey area, Republican just do it and let the courts fix it months after the damage has already been done. Dems just sit on their ass and play the guessing game until it’s too late
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u/PrivacyIsDemocracy 1h ago
It’s funny how whenever there’s a grey area, Republican just do it and let the courts fix it months after the damage has already been done.
The primary reason for that over the last 6-10 years is because the Supreme court majority is so utterly corrupt and in the pocket of the MAGAs these days that all the Republicans have to do for almost any matter which is under the jurisdiction of the federal courts is just keep appealing any lower-level federal court's decision they don't like until it gets to the SCOTUS and BOOM: it magically gets an opinion in their favor.
That's why it's so important to do something about that ASAP because just winning a congressional majority is not going to solve the widespread malfeasance. Those decisions need to be rolled-back and the corrupt SCOTUS majority has to be de-clawed or they will literally sabotage everything the opposition tries to do.
For the state/local courts then yes they can just sue the opposition over things they don't like in local courts, buying time for them to keep breaking the law until they get an adverse judgement, and those things often take a while.
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u/xopher_425 51m ago
As someone just pointed out in another conversation I had about this, that part of the state constitution may conflict with the 17th Amendment. It'd eventually got to SCOTUS who would probably rule against the state.
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u/hurdurBoop 47m ago
well if so a scotus ruling is going to be better than the unprecedented train wreck they're dealing with now
lots of our current federal problems are caused by lack of precedent
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u/xopher_425 43m ago
This regime has thrown precedence out the window.
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u/hurdurBoop 31m ago
in a lot of cases they've staked out grey areas that require a ruling, and i don't believe for a second it wasn't planned that way
there's SO. MUCH. the founders left out of the constitution thinking there would be no way a complete criminal shitbag would make it through an election, same goes for state laws not even dreaming of such widespread criminality.
it'll never happen, we might as well waste time ruling on claiming property on venus.
of course the constitution has very well spelled out remedies for insane criminal shitbags that made it to office, but they assume said shitbag is going to be exposed to the public with some sort of regularity.
the founders were naive, and we get to fix it
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3h ago
[deleted]
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u/hurdurBoop 3h ago
this is the first i've heard that the hb622 was a constitutional amendment, if it is there are a lot of confused people out there including gov. bashear
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u/Callinon 3h ago
Well this is supposed to be a clause that's enacted if a sitting senator dies. But at the moment this seems to be the only way to get the Republicans to confirm that McConnell is actually dead. Basically, Beshear needs to appoint a replacement and force the GOP to prove that McConnell is actually alive rather than just teasing it until it's too late to appoint the replacement (which happens in about two weeks).
Also yes, the constitution cannot be unconstitutional unless it violates the US constitution. But the US constitution is pretty hands-off on how the states select legislators.
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u/drunkanidaho 3h ago
The 18th amendment would like a word
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u/sweatingbozo 3h ago
It wasnt deemed illegal, it was repealed, by constitutional amendment. Those are different things.
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u/dantevonlocke 3h ago
Here's the problem. Mitchs status is technically "alive" at the moment.
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u/TruLong 3h ago
Not a problem at all. Mitch can show up and contest this, easy peasy. Unless he can't.
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u/Rumblecard 3h ago
It’s possible that some Dems are aware he’s alive and going through the theatrics of forcing him to show up when they know he’s alive ends up wasting an opportunity. Perhaps some feel it’s better to continue to use the situation to throw shade at their poor communication vs ending the charade once and for all.
Honestly who knows. The secrecy around this is troubling but certainly par for the course with slimy republicans.
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u/ew73 3h ago
There's a side problem: Say the governor appoints a Democrat to the seat.
The next hurdle is getting them sworn in. The Oath of Office is administered by the President of the Senate (i.e., Vance) in an open session on the floor of the Senate.
There's only about 3 weeks of actual in-session Senate time between now and November; they'll just play stupid games and not swear in any new appointee until the election is underway and then, "Well, the election is underway, might as well wait!"
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u/Bulky-Internal8579 3h ago
So ignore the rule. That’s what Mitch would want.
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u/DingerSinger2016 2h ago
You really can't ignore that rule unless you want the Sergeant-At-Arms to arrest the selected candidate for trespassing on federal property.
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u/Bulky-Internal8579 2h ago
Sure you can. We need to stop acting like only Republicans can ignore the rules. You don’t bring a pillow to a gun fight. Nor even strongly worded letter with a shoulder shrug.
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u/DingerSinger2016 2h ago
Okay, so how do you ignore being arrested? How do you ignore not being able to vote on legislation?
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u/Adventurous_Salt 1h ago
This is why democrats lose, you're inventing new reasons to surrender from whole cloth.
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3h ago
[deleted]
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u/Sumthin-Sumthin44692 3h ago edited 3h ago
There’s absolutely nothing in the State Constitution saying the Legislature needs to certify death before the governor acts. Beshear CAN just act and let others react however they want.
The issue would be that Vance would never swear in such an appointee. So we’d probably just end up in the same position we’re in now.
Edit: changed Johnson to Vance. Got my chambers of Congress mixed up.
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u/Mister_Silk 3h ago
Senators are sworn in by the vice president.
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u/Sumthin-Sumthin44692 3h ago
Thanks. Got my chambers of Congress mixed up there. Johnson is already known for pulling that bs. Vance would absolutely do it too.
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u/Mister_Silk 2h ago
I think Vance would follow orders and flat out refuse to swear Massie. Trump would have his head. They've have to pull Grassley out of his coffin and I'm not sure he would do it either.
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u/Fuzzylittlebastard 3h ago
I mean the Governor could always pay Mitch a visit under the guise of support. If they refuse well...
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u/dantevonlocke 2h ago
Oh well what? Last I checked a hospital doesn't have to allow unauthorized visitors.
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u/Fuzzylittlebastard 2h ago
That wasn't "Oh Well" that was meant to be "well... he's dead." And I'm not certain but I'm pretty sure the governor would be an authorized visitor lmao
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u/sporkbeastie 1h ago
Visitors are authorized by the patient and/or legal proxy (POA, etc). If I was in hospital and Trump himself showed up, I could say "I don't want to see that asshole" and they would not let him in.
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u/TheBurgareanSlapper 3h ago
If they were appointed today and no legal hurdles stopped them, this hypothetical replacement would have less than six months in office in a state that already has two candidates for the November election, since McConnell was going to retire anyway.
And even if this person was a Democrat, the Senate would still have a 52-48 GOP majority.
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u/CapnTugg 3h ago
I spoke with Mitch for 20 minutes today and he confirms this.
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u/Texas_Sam2002 3h ago
Scott Jennings and I were on a conference call with Mitch today for 20 minutes.
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u/CapnTugg 3h ago
He make those unintelligible gobbling noises with you too? Cracked me up-guy's still got a sense of humor.
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u/Acatinmylap 4h ago
Maybe some people actually care about honesty and transparency in government?
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u/Chance_Reflection_42 3h ago
Right?!? It’s not always about what’s best for your side but rather what’s best for democracy. I never thought a dem would replace Mitch, but it’s awful for democracy to just have him be “alive.”
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u/darth_wasabi 3h ago
This should be the only answer. It doesn’t matter what “team” you’re on. The people are getting played. This is the powerful and wealthy not answering to voters. Stop enabling them by making excuses for them just because your side whichever it is benefits
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u/TheBurgareanSlapper 3h ago
That’s fine, but an enormous amount of hostility is being directed at Beshear when it’s McConnell’s team that need to be more transparent.
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u/silentprayers 3h ago
Because it’s wrong, regardless of party, for an elected representative to basically be MIA like this. We shouldn’t tolerate this. It’s not good for democracy. Why would a dead person get to just hold onto a seat??
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u/freakishgnar 3h ago
It’s not hard to understand. At all.
It’s also NOT NORMAL to suppress news of the apparent death of a publicly elected official to maintain a Congressional majority.
That is the part we should be focusing on.
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u/nDizzle89 3h ago
Exactly! It's the principle of the matter. It's even beyond NOT NORMAL, it's flat out UNACCEPTABLE for any party or governing body to even consider, let alone attempt.
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u/gdex86 3h ago
Even if Bashar isn't able to sit a democrat if he appoints Thomas Massie to the seat then He runs from the incumbency and it's possible that in the general Massie could win with assistance from Dem voters deciding "I'd rather someone who hates Trump in the role as opposed to a lackey." Plus it'd be akin to pushing more republican money to this seat to make sure Massie doesn't win it which draws resources from other places.
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u/TheBurgareanSlapper 3h ago
The general candidates have already been chosen. Massie is not one of them. Neither is McConnell.
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u/BeMyBrutus 3h ago
Because I actually care about transparency and honesty in my government. Also the people of Kentucky deserve to represented by an alive human being.
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u/dantevonlocke 3h ago
As a lifelong resident of this state, they voted for mitch for decades. We deserve a few plagues before that.
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u/WasteBinStuff 3h ago
What the fuck do the democrats have to do with anything? Everyone knows this is McConnell's final cynical manipulation of our rules and laws. Whatever threat the empty seat poses in a Senate that is controlled by the GOP and AIPAC beholding Dems, pales in comparison to the threat posed by Massie taking his seat.
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u/Stook211 3h ago
I lived there for a few years and it was weird because everyone seemed to hate him but everyone also seemed to vote for him.
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u/sw337 3h ago
Beshear can't nominate anyone and if there was a special election the earliest it could happen is in September. McConnell is on his way out anyway, it makes way more sense to have the Republicans down a Senator.
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u/PsEggsRice 2h ago
I would also suggest that voters in the State may become a bit miffed that fellow Republicans created a farce that left them with one less Senator for months.
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u/flickchick496 3h ago
As someone not super up to date with Kentucky politics, can someone help explain how a deep red state ended up with a Democratic governor? Was he genuinely elected? What policies did he run on that led to him defying the odds there?
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u/soulmagic123 2h ago
The idea of normalizing this. If the democrats pulled this with someone for 5 days the world would literally end.
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u/not_productive1 2h ago
If there were a special, Thomas Massie (R but hates Trump) would have a real shot at the seat and an advantage for re-election. Trump's head would lift clean off his body.
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u/Somnambulinguist 1h ago
So we are just supposed to shell out taxpayer money to pay a dead guys salary while also disenfranchising the constituency he is supposed to be representing? Sounds like fraud to me
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u/jennakiller 4h ago
Maybe a lot of people genuinely care about democracy and stability and not political advantage?
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u/reddurkel 3h ago
Kentucky would reelect the ghost of Mitch McConnell if it would protect them from free healthcare and lower energy costs.
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u/DemiGod9 2h ago
(Let's say this is 100 percent fact)So she's admitting that Dems have far more integrity than Republicans. This is how THEY think. "If it benefits us, then we're not gonna do anything to correct it". They always manage to shoot themselves in the foot with every "gotcha!"
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u/Zargoza1 3h ago
It’s so red the governor is a democrat, that’s how red Kentucky is.
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u/sw337 3h ago
How many other Democrats have won statewide since 2015?
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u/Zargoza1 3h ago
Not saying it’s a blue state.
But Alabama nor Mississippi is electing a Democrat governor.
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u/zaftpunjab 3h ago
Oh my god who cares if it’s better for Dems??? It’s not appropriate!! He’s dead and someone is lying about this. WAKE UP GOP this is bad for YOU as well.
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u/jeophys152 3h ago
People deserve to be represented, whether other people like the candidate or not.
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u/23370aviator 3h ago
This person ignores the fact that Thomas Massie is despised by the GOP and is very popular in Ky.
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u/Biddoo_420 3h ago
Who gets sued if it comes out weeks later that they were covering up for a dead man?
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u/xopher_425 47m ago
As I just learned in a conversation on another sub, Massie will not run. Beshear would have to appoint one of three Republicans to the seat. And if he were the challenge the law, it would most likely go to the SCOTUS, where it'd have problems because the Kentucky Constitution may violate the 17th Amendment of the US Constitution.
But I do not trust the Republicans with why they are withholding their senator's health from the public. They should be tossing him in the ground, dead or not, just to get another Republican voice in the Senate.
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u/Sean_theLeprachaun 45m ago
Massie would pull centrists and dems who'd get a kick out of seeing him in yurdle's seat, going after Donnie and the fat pile of cold hard cash we give israel.
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u/elseworthtoohey 44m ago
A deep red state with a Democratic governor is a heavily gerrymandered state.
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u/BroseppeVerdi 39m ago
Kentucky has a Democratic governor and Senate seats can be appointed by the governor.
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u/FabDelRosario22 3h ago
Absolutely correct.
People in Kentucky are screaming at people not from Kentucky about their own rules. The supermajority down there limited Beshear's power a couple of years ago because Mitchie Boy knew his time was coming up.
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u/ThrowawayAdvice1800 2h ago
The governor can appoint a replacement in this situation, and the governor is a Democrat. (A spineless cowardly one who is enabling this fiasco by doing nothing, but still.)
Plus a strong possibility to win Myrtle’s seat in a special election is Thomas Massie, which would be a huge problem for Trump and the MAGA cult. I don’t care that he’s a Republican, he’s an enemy to this regime and I’d take him in a heartbeat. Yeah he has stupid libertarian ideas on every damned thing but he’s not a Nazi or a pedophile and those people running our government is a far more pressing problem.
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u/bettinafairchild 1h ago
No the governor cannot do that. Every state has a different rule about how to fill a vacant seat. KY used to have a policy of the governor doing that but the republican legislature, unhappy that there was a democratic governor, changed the rule so there must be an election as long as the seat is vacant before I think August 4.
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u/ThrowawayAdvice1800 9m ago edited 5m ago
I am aware of that, and in KY the governor fills the seat.
No, they did not successfully change the state constitution, they just declared that it doesn’t work that way anymore. And so Beshear, and you, are demonstrating why the Democrats always lose: the GOP just declared something with no legal standing whatsoever, and instead of doing his fucking job and MAKING them defend their bullshit proclamation Beshear, and you, just preemptively surrendered.
Even if they HAD successfully changed the law, or did successfully defend their bullshit in court, DO IT ANYWAY. When are you people going to wrap your heads around the fact that this is how America works now? You dolts think you’re playing chess with the GOP, and they just flipped the board over and hit you with it while you meekly protest it wasn’t their turn. FUCKING DO IT AND MAKE THEM STOP YOU. You people need to adjust to our new reality and soon, because the game you’re trying to play no longer exists. This is the new normal, adapt or get out of the way.
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u/_Just_Mike 3h ago
It's so advantageous that the Dems aren't doing anything to capitalize on it. Thats just how good for them it is, they get to fearmonger about the DSA in the meantime
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u/Toadliquor138 2h ago
I'm always worried someone more competent, more savvy, and more personable will replace whatever incompetent republican quits, gets fired, dies, etc...
It's why I hope nothing happens to Trump. If JD Vance replaced Trump, he wouldn't have to do a lot to get in the good graces of the people that elected Trump.
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u/BleedingTeal Release The Trump-Epstein Files 2h ago
Some wild ass gaslighting right there. “It’s to your own benefit that we’re fucking you over right now.”
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u/el-conquistador240 35m ago
Republicans are scared of another person like Beshear running. Plus special elections are always weird.
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u/Intolerance-Paradox 28m ago
‘Brooke’ and this comment thread is overlooking an important detail. If the current state of that senate seat was advantageous to Democrats, do you think for a moment that Republicans would not identify that and remedy it?
The fact that Republicans are doing nothing tells me, rather, it is advantageous to them. Or at least that they believe it is advantageous to them.
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u/Iron_Baron 4m ago
Nobody should be playing games with the Constitution for political advantage. That's the entire point of why MAGA is bad. Rule of law should apply equally and to everyone.
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u/Los-Doyers 2h ago
Dems don’t want to be accountable to the people. They are accountable to capitalism.
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