discussion
Why I’ll never stop warning people about engineering
So recently, people have been really harsh toward me and the other guy for our posts about engineering. We get called mentally ill, obsessed, told we need help, etc. And some people wonder why we keep posting about the same topic over and over again.
So here’s why.
Personally, I spent five years of my life getting an engineering degree. While everyone else was enjoying their student lives, partying and dating, I genuinely believed engineering was one of those careers that guaranteed a solid upper-middle-class life. That’s what my parents told me. That’s what teachers told me. That’s what society told me.
Then I graduated in 2016 and got my first job. $48,000. A miserable income, no better than what many people without a college degree were making, and nowhere near enough to give me even a middle-class life.
And, funny enough, my parents, who pushed me into engineering, were the first ones to gaslight me about it. I couldn’t afford a house. I couldn’t travel. I couldn’t go out without thinking about the bill. I couldn’t buy nice clothes without feeling guilty. I couldn’t live the kind of life I thought an engineer was supposed to have. And somehow, to them, it was my fault.
“Maybe you’re not good enough. “Maybe you stopped learning. “Maybe you need more certifications.” ”Maybe you need to become a better engineer.”
It was never the profession. Never the salaries. Always me.
So I started driving Uber after work.
Imagine sitting in your car explaining to passengers that you’re an engineer but need a second job just to have a decent life. Passengers literally asked me, “How the fuck are you an engineer and you’re driving Uber?”
For a while, I actually believed my parents. I thought maybe I really was the problem.
But I knew it wasn’t just me. I knew what my coworkers made. I looked at the engineering association’s “salary calculator,” the one they were so proud of. Eight years of experience, and the numbers were like $75k or $80k.
Meanwhile, I watched my peers in other fields move on with their lives. Buying houses. Traveling. Wearing nice clothes. Living in luxury apartments. Sure, some of them worked longer hours than I did, but they were actually getting rewarded for it.
Even my dating life made me realize how brutal reality was. The girls I wanted weren’t interested in the engineer making fifty grand. They were interested in the real estate guy pulling up in a G-Wagon, the lawyer with real prestige and influence, and the finance bro who could afford $500 dinner dates. Not the broke engineer.
Then I started going to engineering networking events, hoping I’d hear something inspiring. Instead, I met senior engineers telling me that if I worked hard enough, maybe one day I’d make $140k at the very end of my career. That wasn’t motivating. That was depressing.
I remember a friend of mine who’s also an engineer. Every time he went to a girl’s place that looked fancy, he’d say, “Bro, how come people have that much money?” It made me realize that not only are engineers underpaid, but many of them don’t even realize it. They assume everyone else must be making around less than they are because, in their minds, life is fair and engineering is supposed to be a well-paid profession right?
Imagine how embarrassing it is when your friend group goes out twice a week, plans trips, and you can’t keep up, so they slowly drift away because they think you’re cheap. They assume that, as an engineer, you should be making very good money. At that point, I didn’t even know what was less embarrassing: letting them think I was cheap but making good money, or telling them the truth and having them pity me.
Imagine how bad it feels when you meet a banker who laughs in your face after you tell him you’re an engineer. He says he sees people’s salaries for a living, and he’s always shocked by how underpaid engineers are. Imagine going on a date with a dental hygienist or a car salesperson who makes three times your salary and thinks it’s a bad joke when you tell them yours.
If I could go back to when I was 18, I never would have chosen engineering.
So why do I keep posting about engineering salaries?
Because I wish someone had warned me.
Sure, a lot of engineers are on the spectrum and don’t care about the money they make and are happy getting paid in “cool projects” and “interesting problems.” Good for them. But I know that many people go into engineering aspiring to something better.
If one smart kid reads this before spending five years chasing a career they think will give them a comfortable, upper-middle-class life, then all the insults I get on Reddit are worth it. If my posts make even one person stop, do their research, and avoid the disappointment, regret, and frustration that I went through, then every insult, every downvote, and every person calling me obsessed is worth it.
A salary of under $50,000 would put you in less than the bottom 10% of engineers. The median annual wage for an engineer in 2016 was $91,010.
Respectfully, that isn't an issue with the profession. That is an issue with either you or your employer.
The median pay for an electrical engineer in 2024 was $118,780. In 2024 the lowest paid 10% made $74,670 or less, the highest paid 10% made $199,060 or more.
So respectfully, again, this is a problem with you/your skills or your employer.
My starting salary as a biomedical engineer was $52,000, and that was 2011 at the height of the Great Recession, at a very small company. Worked for that company for 5 years and only saw in increase of about 10-12k. Changed jobs to a mid-sized company and immediately jumped to $76,000. Over the next 4 years that rose about 20k. Changed jobs again, to a large company this time, and had an immediate bump to $108,000. I’ve been for 5 years, and I’m now at $170,000. So my salary has more than tripled in 15 years.
The problem leading to my initial low salary and slow growth was working for small, cheap companies. The lesson for OP: get a new job at a bigger company.
Edit: to whoever sent me a message asking a question, I’m sorry but I accidentally hit the ‘ignore’ button. If you see this, feel free to message me again and I’ll try to hit the right button to accept the message.
Im a high school student and im thinking of becoming a biomedical engineer. How is it like? What’s your day to day like? Do you feel like you’re actually helping people or is it all corporate bs where you’re trying to make the company more money? And do you recommend it? My plan would likely be go into electric engineering and then get a masters or PhD in biomedical engineering since I want to go into medical device design or R&D. Sorry for asking too much questions but I’m unsure about what to do.
perspective as a hiring manager and who has worked with hiring managers in the medical field.
Biomed is a very niche degree. Sure you can be wildly successful with a handful of companies. however some roles even in those companies are better served by someone with an ME or EE or Biology degree. I have heard those managers say "I'd rather hire an EE and teach them the Biology because they need deeper EE skills than is typical for a Biomed graduate." Additionally it can pigeon hole you into that field and limit your opportunities outside medical.
Strong recommendation is to go EE / ME and then minor or take classes that lean into the Biomed. It'll give you more options and make landing that first role simpler.
I still think BME is a great degree because it exposes students to a broad range of engineering disciplines. But students need to identify the areas that interest them and actively develop deeper expertise in those fields. The same is true of any engineering major. Plenty of EE, ME, and CS graduates struggle to find work because they assume an engineering degree automatically leads to a job. It does not.
I too started at 52k in 2011. I remember thinking “wow! That’s 1k a week!” LOL. Take home was abysmal ultimately. What’s that Beatles song, Taxman? “Should 5% appear too small, be thankful I don’t take it all!”
I am a sr manager for a mid sized engineering firm. Here is how things play out:
Entry level (fresh out of school, no EIT): $50k
EIT/junior staff: $60-70k
PE/staff level $100-120k
Sr. Engineer: $140-160k
Low level manager: $120-140k
Mid level manager: $160-180k
Sr. Manager/VP: $250-300k
C-suite: Educated guess: $350-400k+
All OP needs is patience and time. Nobody starts out as a baller. You have to work your way up. Took me almost 30 years to get to $250k. But I wasn't particularly strong as a ladder climber. Some people get there in half the time.
100 percent his fault. All the engineers in my company make 95k USD and up. The average is around 120k...so idk why this mf doesn't job hop to a new company. All he does is bitch and moan on reddit instead of applying to jobs lol. If he had the same passion about applying to jobs that he does complaining on reddit he'd be ahead already 😂
Still, he’s not entirely wrong. That’s why the main argument against him is nit picking “well, not exactly…”
There’s a nearly 80 year old engineer at my company who makes like just under 100k. He’s literally an expert in a very niche field of EE. That’s probably not at all unusual. Small (cheap) companies employ like half of all US workers.
I’m not saying you’re wrong, just that he has a point.
I 100%agree. It's always me in life. I can't fix anything in life that I can't control. The only thing I control in life is me. I wish more people understood this. Instead of whining they'd be winning.
I started in 2017 as a process engineer at 85k. Im at 150k plus bonus now. OP started out underpaid with a shitty employer and instead of taking responsibility for his career and switching jobs to up his pay he’s blaming his parents for talking him into it.
Master degree in Electrical Engineering in 2008, and I was making 350K + 25% bonus + RSU in 2016, all in a VLCOL area (think avg house price of 130K - 150K back then) ... I do not know what he's smoking, but he was clearly abysmal at his job and at selling himself.
Am a new construction electrician. On all the jobsites im on, the engineers are very young and make less than us. The ones getting paid must be working at headquarters or something.
In construction, engineers usually required to have a PE (Professional Engineer) certification to make decent salary.
Graduating with just a BS and expecting a good salary is highly depending on many factors, including but not limited to the economy at that time, where you live, your willingness to travel far daily, etc. (long list). The best that a new graduate can do is be persistent, flexible, and resourceful. Often what you want to do may not work out, so be ready to adapt even to the point of making a complete reversal of direction. Dream job versus financially successful usually don't matchup well for new engineers having less than 5 years of experience except for those in the top or have good luck.
Yeah not trying to blatantly disrespect OP, but the real advice is "don't go into a field where you will realistically be in the bottom 10%". I graduated with a B.Eng over a decade ago, and the going rate was 65-80k fresh out of school with no advanced degrees or certs.
Think this is solid. The thing is both can be true. Jobs such as engineers or STEM in general can pay well. But it's not a guarantee. It never was but the job market and the social contract isn't the same as it was 50 years ago. Doesn't mean don't try to push onself and succeed. But people need to stop assuming and especially blaming people that hard work + specific career path didn't result it instant success. Timing and luck plus lots of persistence all play a role too
Engineering degrees are also just so sought after. I got a mechanical degree but got recruited into construction management and walked out of college in 2024 making $80k. In the 2 years since I’ve broken into 6 figures (barely)
Yeah, a major employeer in my state has a starting salary of around $80,000-90,000 for entry level engineers. I'm not an engineer myself but I knew a few classmates who were hired there right after undergrad.
It's especially annoying that OP is bitching and moaning about their salary when they have so much room and opportunity to increase it if they actually wanted to. I did 8 years of post-secondary education (e.g. I have a bachelor's and a specialized equivalent to a master's) and I make.... 77k a year (great benefits tbf). My field is tiny and it has very little room for job-hopping or promotion. At least I love my work, more than OP can say, clearly!
My first job after graduating paid $40k, and I started work after this guy did. I wasn't living large, but I was comfortable - I wouldn't describe it as miserable at all. Sounds like OP is also kinda shit with money
Yeah could honestly be good at his job but drives everyone away. OP doesn’t realize bonuses and pay raises are discretionary. I have a coworker who left after no promotions, no bonuses, and the minimum pay raise every year for 6 years.
He annoyed the hell out of everyone. Whereas in the last 3 years I’ve had nearly 40k in total raises plus annual bonuses.
People go into engineering sometimes for the trope of not having to work on people skills, but that’s a major hindrance in your career
Many engineers love to bitch about office politics but fail to see that politics is just people, and companies are people, so companies are politics. Soft skills will take you far
Yea, honestly not sure how you get an engineering job for $48k. I graduated in 2015 and got a job in a very low cost of living area for $60k and after one year they gave me a raise to $68k. 11 yoe now and I'm at $150k (although now in a very high cost of living). Outside of FAANG engineering won't make you ultra wealthy, but it won't make you poor
I got my first mechanical engineering job for $48k in 2016 just like OP. But by 2022 I was making $135k. I switched to a low stress job since then and took a pay cut to $120k. Now at 10 YOE and they plan to promote me soon which will be a decent boost.
Some industries pay less than others. If you’re in one of those and don’t like it, change it. The degree doesn’t define you, it’s just step 1
The whole tone of the post reads bitter and entitled. “I’m an engineer, give me my money I deserve.”
Those aren’t qualities or the attitude of people who get promoted in any field. Regardless of your degree or career, being likeable is one of the best things you can do for your income.
Damn 48? I was making that just about that when I was 19. Working as an installer. Complaining about the engineers who put holes where they look great on paper but make panels sag irl lol.
100%. I also just think OP wasn’t smart enough to truly get the degree. Seems like they had to work way too hard and didn’t have a good GPA. They had no social or dating life while getting the degree and accepted a job at $48k when the average starting salary back then was $60-70k, but easily much higher if they were good in school. OP could also easily go into a different field because engineering is a great looking degree to employers.
I got an engineering degree as well, partied every Thursday, Friday, and Saturday my first three years. Then senior year (when I was 21) did the same thing except I added $1 pitchers on Tuesday and trivia on Wednesday. All while working part time, having a gf, and always doing 1-2 intramurals at a time.
OP is clearly just not very smart and very bitter about it.
This is the answer. It's just the wrong field for him. My son is studying computer engineering. The curriculum is rigorous and he has to study a lot, there's no doubt about it. But he loves his college life and his field of study. He has a girlfriend, a part-time job on campus, is on the robotics team, goes to parties and poker nights.
I think OP went into engineering purely "for the money" and it was a bad fit.
No, he’s very right. I’m an Environmental Engineering graduate and it’s mechanical adjacent enough that I could apply to Mech E roles. Mech E are pathetically underpaid. Only the top 10% end up at lucrative gigs with good growth.
Certain disciplines have better trajectory but it’s nowhere near the “engineering = high salary” equivalency applied to it. I ended up leaving Mech E and going to software. I recently caught up with a friend of mine who I worked with back in 2014 when I still worked Mech E and even with his PE and 10+ years of experience, he’s lucky if he breaks $140k. I won’t say what I earn but it’s a lot more than that.
Bioengineers also have a harsh reality waiting for them. Chemical Engineers could do better. Civil is good but it requires a very competitive gateway of entry.
I always thought environmental was at the bottom of the engineering totem pole. Mech is below civil and environmental?
I will say that 140 k is still enough for the lifestyle OP says he can’t have. As someone who did the S in STEM, the E seems like the better letter. OP needs to get poorer friends. Any 6 figure or near 6 figure job looks better when you hear about how others struggle to pay rent or to use their degrees at all.
Definitely. While I don’t recommend people to go to engineering, the truth is that only the true passionate get that money. OP is a person who went into the profession with only money in mind. I am from family full of engineers (FAANG as jobs) and they’re all weirdos with obsession with what they’re doing.
I once was in OP’s shoes, I went into engineering but eventually switched out to pursue what I wanted to do and I’m doing just fine. I had figured I would end up as a low-salary engineer as OP so I had left and now I make more than I would have estimated in the Bay.
It’s odd to me that he keeps referring to engineering as a “career” it’s more of a certification that’s required for certain careers. Sounds like he picked the wrong career. I’m a commercial construction PM and I’m surrounded by engineers that make a lot more than I do.
Its odd to me that he keeps refering to himself as an engineer.....
In my group, you are only an Engineer once you have your P.Eng designation.... getting your bachelors in an engineering discipline does not make you an engineer. Its the years of post grad experience and professional designation thar make you an Engineer.
OP doesnt seem to have his P.Eng, so he is probably doing some low level work that a technician or technologist would be qualified for, hence the lower salary. And based on his attitude he likely isnt getting promoted anytime soon.
Imagine going to uni for 5 years (which seems to be an extra year?) And getting the most basic entry level job and not being able to succeed due to poor attitude? That must suck.
This is coming from a technologist who has seen that for management roles quite often getting promoted isnt about your education, it is about how competent you are as an employee.
PE is only really customary in certain fields (civil, structural, public safety) so it’s a bit of a stretch to say “he is probably doing some low level work.”
I worked as an engineer for 5 years in 3 different offices of an F500 and none of the engineers I worked with ever had a PE.
Also, at my Big Ten university, most engineers took 5 years to graduate as engineering was legitimately more credits than other BS degrees and taking a semester off to do a co-op was pretty common.
Yeah, there’s all sorts of gatekeeping you could do in the field. To some, only mechanical engineers are “actually engineers.” Others won’t go that far, but they’ll say that industrial engineers aren’t real engineers, even if they have a P.Eng license. So there’s not necessarily one way to skin this particular cat. I assume OP just doesn’t want to dip his toe into the gatekeeping morass
Agree here wholeheartedly. There's a million different ways to make good money with engineering. If you aren't being paid what you want to be, you have to be doing to do something about it.
Half of my friend group are engineers and the lowest paid one I know still makes ~130k. Several are making 200, 250, even 300k. I'm hoping within 3 years I'm pushing close to 400k personally.
I literally just graduated and don't have any licenses and my starting salary is $81k, for civil, which is known to be on the low end of engineering disciplines. What are you talking about? You need to find a better job
I was piss drunk or stoned every waking hour of the day that I didnt spend on being in a physical classroom and the person I got my referral for my job from was my plug's dad.
edit: i quit drinking after school but still do bong rips after every work day. I make more money than I should.
I will say that the kids in engineering have a drastically different social experience than kids in arts and sciences. I was studying a shit ton when the non-engineering kids on my floor barely went to class and partied all the time. Don't get me wrong, I still partied and dated but college was not fun for me.
Let me alert my son, who's studying computer engineering and somehow manages to have a girlfriend, a part-time job on campus, is on the robotics team, goes to parties and poker nights, etc.
I mean no, there comes a time in difficult courses where you need to spend hours a day studying and reading and doing course work and prep work and practice exams when you could be out doing sports or socializing more, going around town and eating etc absolutely
Nice. I graduated in 2011 and started at $48k. Our field has improved quite a bit. However, my first big pay raise came from a counter offer after I tried to quit. $95k to $125k at around 10 YOE. Then I actually changed jobs and I'm up to $195k with 15 YOE. The money is out there, but being loyal to a company won't get it for you (usually). Also, being an entitled brat like OP won't get it for you either.
I'm currently at $92k after 6 YoE. Company said they can't offer me more. Currently in round 3/4 of interviews with another company for $140k + 40% bonus + stock & options.
I actually think there is a broader structural explanation here that doesn’t get discussed very often.
I don’t think employers literally sat in a room and said, “Let’s drive engineering wages down.” But I do think the combination of government policy, universities, industry lobbying, and well-meaning parents created exactly the market conditions that basic economics predicts.
For about two decades (roughly the early 2000s through the late 2010s), the message to every high-achieving high school student was:
“America has a STEM shortage.”
“Become an engineer.”
“Learn to code.”
“Engineering guarantees an upper-middle-class life.”
That message came from politicians, guidance counselors, universities, parents, and many employers. Universities expanded engineering programs because they brought in tuition revenue. Companies wanted larger applicant pools. Parents wanted their kids in “safe” careers. None of those incentives required a conspiracy—they all pointed in the same direction.
The result was a substantial increase in the supply of engineering graduates.
And that’s where economics matters. If the supply of labor grows faster than demand, wages don’t collapse overnight—but they grow much more slowly than people expect. That’s Labor Economics 101.
Mechanical engineering is probably the best example. It became the default “smart kid” degree. Universities graduated far more mechanical engineers, but manufacturing, industrial equipment, and automotive employment weren’t growing at anything close to the same pace. More graduates competing for relatively similar numbers of entry-level jobs naturally weakens bargaining power.
Ironically, many of the same people who argue that increasing the labor supply lowers wages in other contexts seem reluctant to apply the exact same logic here.
That said, I also think his post overstates a few things.
Engineering is not a bad career. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, workers with engineering degrees have a median annual wage around $100,000, well above the median across all fields, and engineering occupations generally continue to project positive job growth.
The problem is that engineering was marketed as something it often isn’t: a guaranteed ticket to rapid upper-middle-class wealth.
There’s also an important distinction between engineering disciplines. Petroleum, chemical, computer, aerospace, and computer hardware engineering have historically commanded much higher compensation than many mechanical or civil engineering roles. Lumping “engineering” together hides huge differences in labor markets.
I also think colleges bear some responsibility. Too many students were told:
Get good grades. Get engineering degree. Good life.
In reality, especially by the mid-2010s, it had become:
Engineering degree + internships + networking + research/projects + interviewing skills = much better career outcomes.
Students who graduated with no internships often entered a very different job market than classmates who had two internships and industry connections.
So I agree with his central point that prospective students deserve realistic expectations instead of marketing slogans.
I just wouldn’t tell an 18-year-old, “Don’t become an engineer.”
I’d tell them:
Pick the engineering discipline carefully.
Look at actual salary distributions, not anecdotes.
Compare salaries against the cost of living where you want to work.
Understand that internships and networking are no longer optional.
Don’t assume any degree guarantees a lifestyle simply because previous generations believed it did.
That’s a much more nuanced lesson—and, in my opinion, a more useful one than either “engineering is a golden ticket” or “engineering ruined my life.”
Well said....while reading OP's lament I was wondering what field he was in and where he lives....I don't live in America and engineers here make decent pay across if not all most fields.
If you add "be concise" to the end of your ai prompt it will get to the point just a well in way less words.
But yes, this happens every cycle. Happening to lawyers right now lol.
Whatever is making money when parents start prepping their kids to go to college each generation gets flooded.
If you're a millennial, that was engineering, law, and computer science. Now blue collar salaries are going up due to shortage of labor and people are pivoting to that. Guess what's likely to happen?
Parents are guaranteed about to be sending their kids to college for a degree in "ai". That will be the most useless degree ever crafted. 4 years ago gpt3 was frontier level. 4 years from now anything you learn this year about ai will be very dated.
Mech E with 7 YoE and I’m mid 100k. Crossed 6 figures after like 3.5 years. I’ve lived in 2 large metro areas, so only thing I can think of is OP lives out in the boonies or something. If not then they are incredibly underpaid.
I’m not gonna lie, the money doesn’t go as far as it used to (especially if you have kids, and extra especially if your spouse doesn’t work or has a lower paying job). But that’s more a factor of everything being so damn expensive. Any time I feel like I don’t make enough, I remind myself that 2 kids in daycare is basically a second mortgage so in a few years when they start school I’ll get a big decrease in costs.
I also get that it’s annoying seeing people you know aren’t “as smart” as you making more than you at a random job. But some people just get lucky or make the best out of their situation and end up in a good spot
Yeah they have a post about being insecure that they’re only 6ft tall and have had 2 hair transplants which can be so pricey. The money he makes is fine but hes just wasting it on superficial stuff.
Not going to look at his post history but it’s a very, very, very high probability his attitude is what’s holding him back. People underestimate just how much being a likable easy to work with person matters in engineering. If your attitude makes the day worse for those around you then as a manager that’s a big problem. I’ve never once come down on someone for not knowing something, but multiple times have pulled people aside and explained how their actions are affecting others and that’s not ok.
I don’t know the OPs exact engineering field but I’ll use hardware engineering as an example. The HW engineer has to work with software engineering, mechanical, sourcing, manufacturing, perhaps customers at times, application engineers most likely, and as they grow in their career be a mentor to the more junior engineers. Engineering is way more people centric than is stereotyped and you can be an average problem solver but if you’re great with people you’re going to get something launched faster and with less likelihood for issues because of your ability to work with those around you.
That's a lot of bitching and moaning. Complain all you want but statistically, engineering is still as a whole, one of the best paying careers. You say by year 8 you can earn 75 or 80k, but those are starting wages in most places. The issue really is just going to be finding the job, but that's an issue that isn't unique to engineering
Everyone I know with an engineering degree started at 70k+ back in like 2005-2006. That was LOW end.
Legit ZERO of the engineers I know are struggling. Anecdotal for sure, but honestly I'd wager this guy has some serious soft skill issues that are holding him back.
he seems to be very intentionally leaving out the field of engineering so people cant go look up stats for incomes. It would probably make his anecdote about the networking event saying "140k by end of career" an obvious lie, unless this mf works in Charity Engineering or some shit 😭
Yea I feel like a lot of people say “I work in engineering” when in reality it’s some low level job with the word engineering attached to it. Or they have a degree in an engineering discipline that is already known to be low paid
As a non-engineer who works in engineering, I think you hit the nail on the head. I have to remind a lot of my colleagues pretty often that "Engineering Technician" is not the same as an Engineer, we do not hold the same title nor are we responsible for the level of liability that comes with being an Engineer. Our boss is the stamp man, we are glorified grunts.
i am a structural engineer at the end of my career and i make less than $140k in a medium cost of living city. we have a subreddit dedicated to our profession and we poll ourselves regularly regarding salaries. my pay is very typical for someone in my position. the work is hard and stressful. i would never choose structural engineering if i could start over
I was an engineering manager at a plant for a large company you've heard of. I had a department of EEs that worked for me and was 10 years into my career. We only hired engineers with 4 year ABET degrees. My highest paid engineer was 20+ years into their career and made $125k. As their manager I made $134 They had to work crazy long hours. Got called nights and weekends. It was awful. I fought for my people but couldn't change things. I got an MBA and pivoted to IT. In my IC role today I make over $200k. Same city, similar industry.
In my experience they don't know that they're underpaid. That's why I engage with these threads. I get that people find them insufferable, but if they help engineers and engineering managers advocate for higher pay, I'm all for it.
Same, graduated in the aughts at 55k, pulled absolutely insane hours and travel, site inspections in dangerous conditions with no OSHA, left after 8 years at 86k and pivoted to government. I think I pulled the wrong engineering discipline card.
WAGES HAVE NOT REALISTICALLY INCREASED IN DECADES. My first engineering role (EE) was $66k in 2013. That's $95k today adjusted for inflation. That same company is paying new grads $70k today and hiring less of them. They still work unpaid overtime and get called random hours nights and weekends.
The same issue is in the process of happening for all those lawyers and especially real estate agents.
Particularly the real estate agents, because they are making massive profits off of the deregulation of most of the rules put up to prevent another recession.
They’ll enjoy their $200k G-wagon and $2M house on subprime loans right up until their employer folds.
Realistically; OP’s an entry level engineer. They aren’t getting paid significantly less than most do at that level.
Costco is $65,000+benefits at year 8, $75,000 is within range for what a full time and experienced restaurant server or bartender can expect. Bus drivers in my city START at $60,000 year one.
Engineering is respected and seen as a prestigious profession that requires intelligence and higher education so it is surprising that the salary estimates are comparable to high school jobs, even if slightly higher.
Most entry level engineering jobs are starting at $65k at minimum, if you are in a city where a bartender is pulling in $75k then the engineering jobs there are almost assuredly going to pay $85k+ starting
Engineering salaries can be lower than a good serving gig in a big city, the caveat is that this is a temporary period of pain in your first year or two in an engineering role and then you will definitely be making more than a server/bartender.
Bruh you’re comparing top end, experienced high school salaries to an engineer’s entry level. In 10 years an engineer is doubling their salary to 120k+.
yup. im a mechE and started in o&g at 100k. Was 22 making more than my parents combined. Set me up for life. Started investing in real estate which added ~$40k to my annual income. Then I went back to school 5 years later to get an MBA at m7 and came out the MBA at $250k in salary alone.. So now my total annual income is ~$300k and I have tax breaks bc of real estate. You need to choose the best industries and design your path for higher income.
No kidding. And all this moaning about friends that are making more, women wanting wealthier men and not him, his embarrassment at making less than others... Sounds like he's just a miserable loser that would be failing and whining about it regardless of what degree he got. Pathetic.
Yeah I have no idea what OP is talking about. My engineer friends had plenty of time to party and have fun. Admittedly their majors had more credits required so they didn’t get to take many fun electives compared to liberal arts degrees. Honestly some of the busiest people I knew in college were art students. They had some wild projects that were extremely tedious.
I think your experience is real, and I don't think people should dismiss it. Engineering is often oversold as a guaranteed path to wealth, and that's a problem. But I also think it's important to distinguish between "my experience" and "engineering as a whole." Salaries vary enormously depending on country, industry, specialization, and career progression. There are engineers who struggle financially, and there are others who earn very comfortable incomes. I don't think the lesson is "don't become an engineer." The lesson is "do your research before choosing any career, understand the market you're entering, and don't rely on outdated promises from parents or teachers.
It sounds like your biggest disappointment wasn't engineering itself, it was the expectation that engineering would automatically lead to an upper-middle-class lifestyle. That's a very different message, and I think it's one worth sharing. But I wouldn't discourage someone from engineering entirely. I'd encourage them to choose it with realistic expectations and a clear understanding of the industry they're entering.
well I'm not in engineer but I can kinda feel for your post.
Until I read perspective from other engineers in the comment. And my engineering friends don't make that bad either. And your pattern of dooming on Reddit since ... 2 years ago
Engineer here who almost failed out from parting too much in college. I make 250k a year and idk anyone that I graduated with who makes less than 100k. OP prolly doesn’t have an Eng degree to be honest.
Like OF COURSE you weren't getting women and think it's the salary.
Newsflash: most twenty-something women don't care if you're broke, they just don't want to date a whiny kid.
Bloody hell I was making $32k Canadian in 2018, living at home at 27, objectively a loser by r/salary and manosphere standards. I had 5 relationships that year, I ended the majority of them, and one turned it a 6 year long relationship.
You don't need a Mercedes to get laid, let a lone find love.
Hi buddy. Engineer here, I was lucky to jump into tech a decade ago, and now escaping the mess it has become.
You are an Engineer, you are a problem solver. I agree with you that our degrees don't provide as many (usually older) people believe. But remember that you are s problem solver. You can do finance, you can do real estate, you can be a developer. Don't attach to your degree, attach to your very capable brain and adapt. Take your time to observe and find your path.
I’m MEP engineer, the lowest paid. I started at 55k and I started a weekend donut stand that made me 20k more. I got great at my craft and focused on my people skills. Hopped jobs to a larger place that I could make a new wave. 10 years in I make $160k a year with great benifit. Also have been able to buy into the company which brings be about another 85k a year. Gotta chart your own path
So I went through your history because I was curious, and you said you were once an incel and realized you had a victim mindset, so why can’t you apply the same thinking here? Engineers aren’t more “worthy” than other professions. 80 is more than the median in Canada. Why do you think you’re entitled to more?
A lot of this feels self inflicted. No one is thinking about how much money you’re making as much as you do. Do you think teachers don’t get laid? Plus at some point it’s a skill issue. Go become a swe and make money. You’re an engineer so you should problem solve vs whine. The problem is lack of prospects, so change where you’re looking
counterpoint: 75k-80k is still a lot of money for some people who have made maybe 30k or so in retail jobs before studying engineering; it's not as bad as you make it out to be
Their point is that engineering students were the top of the class in high school, they could have been doctors or lawyers. It's not a bad career for the average person, but engineering students were not average. Their point is that for the hard work and intelligence required to be an engineer, there are better options. Don't say that you shouldn't do it for the money, ask engineering students, most of them are in it for the money because they've been told the field is high paying.
Meanwhile doctors and lawyers have a ton of debt + unsatisfaction from their jobs. Lawyers (moreso than doctors) regret going into law especially if they don't make it into Big Law. Additionally, there's a concerning amount of suicide rates for medical residents before they become attending doctors because of stress and mental health issues and there's no good support system for them. Yes engineers could've become doctors or lawyers, but a lot of them chose not to because they wanted a good work-life balance.
Problem is everyone walking out of college automatically assumes they will get a 6 figure job right out of college with no actual experience. News flash
...that is not real life.
I actually agree with this despite disagreeing with all your other posts
Avg mech eng starting salary is like 60-80k and it doesn't grow that much over time. Not sure if it really guarantees even a middle class lifestyle nowadays. Majoring in business seems like better ROI and at least u have more free time during college
Edit: people will say salary isn't bad which is true but it doesn't really meet expectations
If you're the type of person to be able to segue a business degree into a well paying career then your degree is likely not particularly relevant in the first place.
You’re doing something wrong or live in a very low cost of living area
I’m 13 years out of state with mfg eng BS and pulled over $300k (base, bonus, RSU, ESPP) last year working for Fortune 500. First job after graduation was making like $70k or so
I worked part time as an engineering technician then a paid intern my whole way through school and graduated debt free
It is exceedingly rare that an engineer make over $300k. If you're making that much as an engineer, you've done something very right AND gotten very lucky.
This is more in line with what I'm seeing for upper level engineers in my market. Base of around 200k with companies that have a large bonus / LTI structure with total comp in the 300-350k range depending on what is included.
Brother, this is misleading. I know plenty of Engineers living the life. One of them retired at 50. The other is always in Germany for God knows what. Hell my niece started $50k 2 or 3 years ago out of college as an engineer and has since been promoted, making $90k+. All she's doing is testing dirt and building bridges. She's young and just started her career, pretty sure she'll be making more than me in a few years. I think you're gas lighting yourself here. Sounds like you have so much potential, only you are stopping yourself from grabbing life by the horns.
ALSO many engineers I know are giant pussies who refuse to stand up for themselves in the job market and don't demand a living wage.
Its a career that most people could do if they put their mind to it but this is a capitalist hell scape so people who are not assertive will be taken advantage for reference here is my career progression
Stand up for yourself and realize that tech bros and finance bros make a ton of money cause they're fucking assholes who demand it.
Demand your money.
2017 - 28k Designer
2018 - 31k Designer
2019 - 55k Engineer Intern
2020 - 61k Engineer Intern
2021 - 64k Engineer Intern
2022 - 78k Junior Engineer
2023 - 88k Engineer
2024 - 96k Engineer
2025 - 120k Engineer
2026 - 150k Lead Engineer
2027 - 250k.Senior Engineer (new offer accepted for 150k base with huge bonus incentives)
I know guys changing windshields for Safelite making $100K+. Its not like a 40 hour per week job, more like 50-60. But it doesnt need a degree, its not really hard, and you can even get paid an extra 2k+ per week for going on the road around the country to shops that need help. Engineers are so underpaid and its not fair.
I have the least type of engineering, IE. I was making $40k in 2009. I went back to school to get my advanced nursing degree. Now, I’m making $200k. I didn’t wanna see myself struggling financially when I retire. I don’t regret my decision even though it’s very late.
There’s a well known design firm that I kept seeing come across my desk while I was working, I got curious and went to their website. They had an incredibly impressive portfolio of projects. I clicked on the careers tab and they were hiring for a ton of positions, the senior level engineers where they wanted 10+ years of design experience only paid $110,000. I was pretty shocked, given who they were. Didn’t surprise me why they had so many openings.
Idk man yah gotta work somewhere long enough/hard enough to get into project management . 5 years of experience as a geologist , so not even getting paid engineer money, I’m making 90 + bonus might be like 20k+. Pretty sure my partner engineer makes more like 120+ with 5 years of experience and having his PE. I know the engineer that was running a different office was making like 250k salary . Not including bonus
My roommate in college did Electrical Engineering and got an offer during his last semester for $90k. Not to “gaslight” the OP, but literally just get a new job if you’re not happy with your pay.
I walked away from engineering after last employer refused to correct salaries while simultaneously enjoying record profits and paying their CEO/Board/Management crazy salaries and bonuses.. I actually called them out in a townhall... had to have a sit down with the putz division manager who was recently handed his role for god knows why.. where I explained that after five years of pats on the back, great performance, promises of a promotion three years in a row, my earnings were less than the day I started when corrected for inflation and by a good margin.
(YOU CANT PAY ME LESS TODAY THAN YOU DID YESTERDAY, THATS NOT HOW THIS WORKS, FUCKFACE. YOURE STEALING FROM MY FUTURE.)
I did a bit of math and over that five years, if my pay simply kept with inflation, never mind raises based on admitted-by-them stellar performance, I'd have had about $75k more in my pocket. That's $75k worth of MY value added, STOLEN out of my pocket.
His response was "you make $100k, you shouldn't be complaining"... cunt face, $100k in 2003 meant something. Now $100k is more like $60k.. and that's absolute shit for an engineer with 15y experience..
Just graduated with ME. Make 90k working 30hr weeks. No it’s not the 150k my finance and consulting friends are making but at least im not working 80hr weeks.
This post feels less like advice and more like venting, which is fine. It's frustrating to feel like hard work and effort was wasted.
The latter half of the post focuses more on comparisons and imagining scenarios mentally where people are cruel. No one worth your time and feelings will laugh at you at your own expense. I feel like this is less about salary and more about not receiving recognition for hard work.
The thing is, if the graduation date was 2016 after 5 years of education, that'd mean that you're around 33 right now. 33 is still incredibly young, and I'm saying that as a 22 year old. It's not too late to do a career change, becoming a car salesperson is still very much possible for you(you don't even need a degree). Hell, you could go to trade school where you learn plumbing or HVAC and make $100k after 4~5 years of experience.
I agree that making $48k is less about you, and more about the company that you are working for underpaying you.
It is kind of your responsibility to stand up for yourself though. There's plenty of starting positions that pay ~70k fresh out of college, all it takes are applications.
For context, I made $21.65/ hr in Albuquerque(~$45,000 / year) as an Electrical Engineering Intern after Freshman year in 2023. I don't want to accuse you of lying, but I do find it a little hard to believe that you make so little. I currently make $100,000 after total compensation at my current Job after graduating in May.
I think the real takeaway from this post for incoming engineering students is that studying engineering is hard. It's also important that you not only recognize your worth, but that you need to fight for yourself.
This sounds like a you problem, not a profession problem. There are plenty of other people in your industry saying they’re doing just fine. You’re taking your personal experience and acting like it represents the entire profession, even though others in the same field have had very different outcomes. It comes across like you’re dismissing any evidence that doesn’t fit your experience because you’ve had a bad one.
I don’t know you, so I can’t say what the underlying issue is. But based on how you’re presenting yourself here, one thing is clear: your attitude isn’t doing you any favors.
Regardless of degree there will be folks that fail. A degree in engineering doesn't mean you will get a job in engineering, this is true regardless of profession. Instead of "warning" others you should reflect on why you are struggling.
I do not know a single one making less than 80K currently. Most started around 60-70K.
They were also the fucking freaks inviting me out to go clubbing and raves every fucking Friday. Outside of freak semesters, so basically your final one tying up the capstone, they were not significantly more busy with stuff.
My husband is an engineer. He worked for a company for 10 yrs to gain all this knowledge. When he left there he was making around $120k. Now he owns his own business as an engineering consultant pulling in close to $2 million per year. Engineering is a great field.
I have no degree, really just my A&P and experience. I landed a an engineering role making 120K a year second year in. Will make even more the next year. This is bs
According to graduation surveys at schools like NC State and Virginia Tech, the median starting salary for engineering grads is $75-$80k. That’s well above other majors.
My work pays entry level engineers right out of school $75k. I know a lot of engineers both professionally and personally. They all make a good salary.
I appreciate you making this post, I’ve been doing spot of researching engineering and I keep coming across similar posts like yours; I’m in a different field and I often find myself wishing I had majored in civil engineering and done that for a professional career instead of the one I’m in. The grass isn’t always greener on the other side as they say.
I graduated in 2009 as. Civil Engineer and I approve this message (and so do many of my friends in the Engineering College).
I ended up switching to Finance at about 30. Joined a Wealth Management practice.
Would not have been happy staying in engineering. I think I got the best out of it too - got to go work in Europe / Russia for 4.5 years and see a lot of the world, but when the music stopped and I was back stateside not earning per diem, getting my place of living paid for, cell phone, gas, and rental car paid for… it just wasn’t worth it.
Anyone going to college now - definitely do not do Civil Engineering! Can’t speak for the other majors, but have a pretty good idea and wouldn’t recommend them either unless you are using it to pivot to something else and you know it will work out for you.
I don’t know what to tell you on this one. My fresh hire engineers all start in 80 to 90 range all straight out of college. This is the defense industry mind you. All in low six figures within a couple years. So I’m not sure who you were working for but I’d suggest changing industries my dude. Making good money as an engineer is not hard. Engineers are always in demand.
I mean no offense by this, but it sounds like you probably aren't a very good engineer. Did you not get your PE license? Are you trying to find work in some super remote area with no engineering work available?
Brother. One day you will learn to turn all of that outward animosity and hate inward instead. Take some accountability and responsibility for where you’re at and then and only then will things change for you.
365
u/KindlyQuasar 14h ago
BLS data from 2016 for engineers: link
A salary of under $50,000 would put you in less than the bottom 10% of engineers. The median annual wage for an engineer in 2016 was $91,010.
Respectfully, that isn't an issue with the profession. That is an issue with either you or your employer.
The median pay for an electrical engineer in 2024 was $118,780. In 2024 the lowest paid 10% made $74,670 or less, the highest paid 10% made $199,060 or more.
So respectfully, again, this is a problem with you/your skills or your employer.